Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Addicted To Steel]

Fishing with sweet, juicy, ripe, plump berries is part of my religion. I'm claiming religious discrimination on this one. I will not lay down my berries for any political B.S. no matter who, or what tells me to!!!!!
Just trying to keep it fun, boys.

 In reality, I think we're waisting time with the accusations back and forth on the fly vs gear deal. Lets not let this bait ban stunt create bad feelings between the groups of fisherman. We know there's already too much of that going on. We all share the resource, and we obviously all like being out there enjoying the water and wilderness. I both fly, and gear fish, it's ridiculous to berate one or the other just because someone prefers one over the other.
 The facts are that no matter how we fish, there is a hook at the end of our lines. We all have a negative impact on a fishes stress level when we hook and fight one. Of the 25 years of fishing I've done; bait or non bait; I have only seen a few fish take my presentation deep in the stomach. A few of them were small trout which swallowed small hooks with worms. The trout were taken home and eaten.  Out of all the salmon, steelhead, sturgeon, and bottom fish I've caught, I can only remember two Coho salmon which swallowed the hook completely.  One was on roe, the other on a single J-egg. Both these fish were caught on small hooks, #4's. Blaming high mortality rates solely on the use of bait, seems a waste of time, and $ on enforcement.  Especially a bait ban on a hatchery enhanced river, how ridiculous is that. There are no truly wild stock in a hatchery enhanced river. What are they protecting there?
  I have outfished bait with artificial gear at times, and outfished artificial gear with bait at times. I have also been outfished by a fly fisherman, when I was throwing bait. The most recent studies I have seen publicized have determined that the mortality rates of bait hooked fish is much, much lower than previously thought. I am going to try to find some of the articles I have read recently, so I can hopefully use them as references.

[Headstone]

In answer to headstone's query about the source and documentation of my comments.
I work in the sport fishing industry and the "availlability " of info is higher I beleive than the average fisherman. Many reports and publications pass through my hands.
ALL the mentioned info is availlable through WLAP and DFO files. I trust that if you are truly interested in the validity of those studies you will seek the information out yourself.

I belong to one of the oldest fly fishing club's in BC and believe me, everyday I recieve emails down the pipe.  I chat with MWALP "movers and shakers" past and present... and fish with members of another flyfishing club who are the Dean River Guardians.  Your posts are pure propaganda... plain and simple.  Nice but you are surely not pulling the wool over my eyes. 

As for bait bans on hatchery subsidized rivers... and course fishing... I sure hope not  and I stated this in my letter to MWALP...

seems the dfo is taking the "easy"way out,instead for enforcing the rules already in place.i think it will hurt the sport in the long run
less people will fish=less money for fish.seeing how i have here in front of me heres there reasons:
1 conserve fish resources
2 maintain as many angling opportunities as possible
3 help harmonize angling regs across the province
i don t even use bait,and i think it s wrong province wide,biff made some good points about juveniles and i could see that helping.but a total ban with out proof,of any kind that it will "help",there is alot more the dfo could do to help than this.weak.
 

Mr. Pink if your going to send in your letter of protest don't send it to Fed's 

Sorry FF I cant entirely agree with you, first off conservation starts out at sea including overfishing and the bycatch, then you have the habitat destruction issue, illegal poaching, netting in the rivers and the flossing thing including Flyflossing. Bait may be a great attractor but I have fished many a day with bait and have been skunked while wool ties were picking up the fish. As I've said before, I can live without bait but do I want to. NO! not while there are people fishing with floats put on upside down ( because they don't even know how a rig is put together) and then snagging them with eight to twelve foot leaders. (under the Veddder bridge is a great example of this during the coho run) Taking fish that are not actually caught in the mouth and so on. You could go on forever about all the ways fish are injured or overcaught, I would like to wager a hundred times more fish are injured or die through foul hooking than through being taken by bait, this seems to me, more of pressure being applied by some self interest groups than a valid way to protect the fish stocks. I strongly believe that "most" of the anglers using bait are ethical fishermen who care deeply about the resource and the handling of fish with extreme care.
Just one mans opinion


Sassy boy...
Sorry FF I cant entirely agree with you, first off conservation starts out at sea including overfishing and the bycatch, then you have the habitat destruction issue, illegal poaching, netting in the rivers and the flossing thing including Flyflossing. 

Just wanted to point out that you missed a word in front of flossing, that word should be gear flossing.

 I would like to wager a hundred times more fish are injured or die through foul hooking than through being taken by bait, this seems to me, more of pressure being applied by some self interest groups than a valid way to protect the fish stocks

who is the "self interest group" sassy boy???

2:40 I personally think your looking at this with a level head, I admire you for that.

Now we all know that Cutthroat trout are a "species of special concern" and we all know that over- harvesting and habitat destruction are primarly the causes of the cutthroats demise.  Cutthroat are glutton's for bait (well documented)  and the cutthroat by-catch is incredible when anglers descend on streams in search of other species. 

Most maiden cutthroat show up later in the season, but most repeat spawners (the big hens that  lay bigger eggs... produce bigger aliven... in turn get a jump start on life) return to rivers to spawn earlier...  and intecepted by coho fisherman using roe.

Where does the cutthroat fit into the picture? does anybody care.  I fished bait for years and absolutely hammered cutthroat while in search of coho and steelhead, they were a very pleasant suprise when caught.  I certainly wasn't going out fishing and targeting them... 
I switched over to the fly but still continued to fish with my bait fishing partner, he always gave me first water... and he always picked up cutthroat behind me.  I have fished runs that I absolutley peppered the hell out of the water with flies, only to see him come in and pick up fish where I swung a fly 3 times over...

[allwaysfishin]

Headstone
I'm not questioning your "long time" membership to a fly club. All info i posted is NOT propoganda and is availlable in factual form.
whether you choose to acknowledge it's merit, your call
It certainly is not propoganda, it's documented. I trust your movers and shakers past and present can find and direct you too the documentation
anyhow, I'm not replying to further comments, the facts are there, pull the wool off from over your eyes and see the big picture.

[Headstone]

the ministry has on file documented from surveys on the Dean River from 1999, which other than a small area is "FLY ONLY". The run size estimate was at 3500 steelhead. Stream guardians throughout the season reported capture of 4700 fish. Obviously these fish had been captured numerous times resulting in undue stress and increased mortality. Based on the WLAP logic that they use to justify the bait ban, then FLY ONLY on the Dean should be banned.
*the above information is taken directly from a recent letter to WLAP from the B.C. Federation of Drift Fishers from the groups president.


Ok lets ban flyfishing and lift the bait ban how many fish do you think would be caught?
Read the Dean River regulations the river is NOT fly only...  half truths and deception... propaganda plain and simple..

 pull the wool off from over your eyes and see the big picture.

okay 

see the big picture.

So the big environmentalist anti hunting  anti fishing conglomerates are dictating through our government bodies that a bait ban is necessary and because thier bank accounts are bigger and thier collective voice is louder, we have to pay the price.

I'd still would love to know who these special interests groups that are pulling the puppet strings of the Government  LMAO 

[Rodney]

I think every angler's best interest is to secure his or her fishing opportunities, but at the same time to ensure the his or her negative impacts on the fish stock are minimized so sustainability is reached and future opportunities are not lost.

Those negative impacts should be scientifically measured before management changes are implemented, not basing on past personal accounts by a few.

Banning of bait during specific time of the year at specific locations would most welcomed by anglers. I'm sure no one would like to see a throat hooked steelhead smolt with a #2 hook in spring after it engulfs a chunk of roe. No one would also like to see a chinook being hooked on the back after a fly has been dredged across a river bed of spawners. Specific regulations to reduce the occurence of these are needed.

Again, that's as much as I will comment for now. We can go on and on for 20 more pages on pro-bait vs anti-bait, but in the end these discussions are worthless if they are not voiced beyond the cyber space, and WLAP is the one making the final call. I'm looking forward to the next few weeks (or not looking forward to at the same time) as there are several meetings where this will be brought up for clarification. Stay tuned.

[chris gadsden]

I am sure Fishery Managers from both WLAP and FOC know about fishing forums including FWR and will be reading them often so a lot of excellent posts made the last 2 weeks have not gone unnoticed.


From a recent email dated March 14 I received, FOC has been inundated with emails and phone calls. A sentence from the email "Folks are not happy that an issue as important as this has been left to on-line input"

An answer from Alan Martin from WLAP 4 days later included the statement "The notice in the synopis was intented to provide a year's notice of our proposal and intent. We will provide a the forum and timelines for this policy discussion with stakeholders in the coming months".

[Fish Assassin]

An answer from Alan Martin from WLAP 4 days later included the statement "The notice in the synopis was intented to provide a year's notice of our proposal and intent. We will provide a the forum and timelines for this policy discussion with stakeholders in the coming months".

I'll believe it when I see it.

[chris gadsden]

I have put together a petition opposing the proposed bait ban. It is directed to Premier Gordon Campbell. Copies will also be sent to WLAP and some other key MLA's.  We have gathered about 200 signatures since we started circulating it last Saturday.

If interested it is in Fred's Custom Tackle, Chilliwack Dart and Tackle and Hub Sports.

Will attempt to get it in some Lower Mainland shops as well.

[Fish Assassin]

Thanks Chris

[Sandy]

they should put as much effort into policing the poachers.

[Addicted To Steel]

Chris, good for you on the petition!! I've got about 300 alias' I can use for that sheet. Let me guess, your buddy Nick signed it about 1 million times. Nick without roe. That's not a pretty sight.

[chris gadsden]

I have put together a petition opposing the proposed bait ban. It is directed to Premier Gordon Campbell. Copies will also be sent to WLAP and some other key MLA's.  We have gathered about 200 signatures since we started circulating it last Saturday.

If interested it is in Fred's Custom Tackle, Chilliwack Dart and Tackle and Hub Sports.

Will attempt to get it in some Lower Mainland shops as well.

Berry's Bait now has the petition, drop in if you wish to sign it. Will start sending some of them in next week as we have gathered up a good number of signatures here in Chilliwack.

[Fish Assassin]

Hope the powers to be will reconsider their proposal.

[chris gadsden]

Hope the powers to be will reconsider their proposal.

We with the support of many will do the best we can. What else can one do.

[chris gadsden]

An update on the petition. We have received good response in the first week since we started to circulate it and have the first batch almost ready to send in to the Premier with copies going to some other key MLA's and the Water, Land and Air Protection Ministry.

Got word today that one of our local MLA's talked to WALP Minister Barisoff on our request and we heard back he will not be supporting this proposal by his department so it looks like the complaints have been coming in hot and heavy. We may be winning this one but better not count the chickens before they hatch.

Thanks to all that have written letters ansd signed the petition so far.

Keep them coming.