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[casinoJim]

Wanted to let you know I saw several trawlers with nets across the fraser today. Severaltimes I saw nets come up gorged with fish. ...they looked to be about 2 feet long... sure did not look nearly big enough to be  springs to me.

I don't think they were  pinks either cause when they are in I see them near the shorelines.

anyone know what openings were today??
CJ.

[Rodney]

Jim, you were probably witnessing the 39 hour sockeye communal opening for Penelakut Indian Band and Cowichan First Nation, or the 24 hour sockeye ceremonial opening for Musqueam First Nation.

In the future, if you wish to check the First Nation opening times, please take a look at this page.

[Gooey]

Cowichan First nations??? are you telling me they used to paddel across the strate of georgia in their dug out canoes to fish the fraser socs? 

I cant believe a band from VANOUVER ISLAND gets "dibs" on fish in the fraser when there is plenty of fishing grounds over there.

Whiteys' technology (boats in this case) has extended FN fishing range far further that ever possible before...when will the B***S*** stop, how can Cowichan FN be fishing the fraser under a food/ceremonial openings!

[pepsitrev]

i get more disgusted evetytime i hear the natives getting more fish. why dont they close the whole river and let the soxs go bye unharmed. if the white man gets no fish then the indians should not either i say bullsh-t on there food fishery when i hear of sales from trucks and cars around island 22 and other spots yesterday. and you bet your booty i phoned and reported them asap.well going camping for a few days so hang in everyone and enjoy your weekend.tight lines to all

[Geff_t]

  I just looked at the openings for the first nations(thanks rodney) no wonder the fish are disappearing. I could not believe how many openings there are.

[Nikko]

Gooey:

In my younger years I lived with a Cowichan family for several years on the Tsawout reserve in Saanichton. I was fortunate enough to get to know "Grampa". No one knew exactlty how old Grampa was, but he was born in a small village that stood behind where the Empress hotel in Victoria now stands, and as history shows, that mud flat has been filled since the early part of the 20th century. Nearest estimates had him born in the mid to late 1870's, possibly the early 80's. If that's the case and if you assumed he worked as a "young" man, the dates of the below story would put it near the turn of the century. Grampa told many stories, but several that are pertinent.

He and his brother used to paddle over to Vancouver in early spring every year and work for the canneries. His job was to help tow the barges of excess and unusable fish (salmon) out to Burrard inlet and dump them. Yes...barges.

He also had an intimate knowledge of the lower Fraser river because he would fish it with his band members every year. I'm not sure if this was done from convinience (because theye were here) or not and I'm not sure how they treated the fish to get them home. But I do know that the Fraser fishery was considered a valuable part of their gathering of food for the winter...

When I traverse Active pass I still follow the route he taught me through his grandson. I guess there's nothing like navigating the lower coast out of necessity in a log to teach you about tides, curents and back-eddies.

Nikko.

[Geff_t]

so because he was in the area working so many years ago they now have a right to fish for food in the fraser river. Well if that excuse makes them sleep better at night then sure. but why can they not fish in THEIR TERRITORY or do they just want to do their part too in rapeing the river.

[Nikko]

qt:

Don't get angry with me, I'm not defending anyone's right to lay claim to the Fraser fishery nor am I disputing it.  Gooey may a comment in his post:

"Cowichan First nations??? are you telling me they used to paddel across the strate of georgia in their dug out canoes to fish the fraser soc"

And I'm simply telling a story that I heard first hand from an old timer that did in fact paddle across the Straits to fish the Fraser; and more than once. I'm not sure what fish they took home, but I doubt they were sockeye.

Although, I have an old lure of his that he made. It's sort of like an articulating plug that once had a red flag on the end . Who knows?

Nikko

[Geff_t]

sorry nikko i did not mean for my anger to be directed at you and please accept my apology.

[Nikko]

qt:

No appology required. I knew your post wasn't directed at me.

Nikko

[Gooey]

I lived in Cobble Hill for many year (between Victoria and Duncan for those who dont know the area), Cowichan bay was our stomping grounds.  I have a ton of trouble believing that bands in the good old days would paddle to the fraser to catch salmon (for sustanance) when there are so many salmon bearing rivers right there (cowichan, alberni, stamp, gold, etc, etc,).

I am no historian so I cant/wont call BS on a story like that, but a point I would make is that it sounds like "grandpa" was participating in a commercial fishery at that point and not a food fishery... thats my main point of contention with cowichan members fishing the fraser now.

If they were commercial guys from cowichan, getting the same shot as everyone else (non- FN fishers too)... then good enuff for me, but thats not the case now.

[Nikko]

Gooey:

Who knows if Grampa was participating in a food fishery or commercial fishery. I know he did both as in later years he had his own inside troller.

He also used to hunt deer on what now is the Oak Bay golf course. Doubt that would be too popular if it was done today though

The only reason I recounted the tale was to show that yes...people from the Cowicahn bands did in fact go across to fish the Fraser and my knowldge of this comes first hand from a man that did it on a somewhat regular basis. Knowig him as I did, I highly doubt there was embelishment to the story. But his eyes *were* known to twinkle at times

I agree that there are a great many productive rivers in his own back yard and I know that in his life, the Cowichan river itself played a huge role, and still does to his descendants.

He passed on in the early 80's and his wife a few years after, so he's not here anymore to ask.

Nikko

[gman]

Nikko,

Thanks for the interesting stories about the old days in this area.

[Gooey]

don't mind me Nikko, I am a born skeptic 

I guess the point I was getting at was that with all the river and runs on the island, the Cowichan Band certainly can't be dependant on the fraser river fishery to supply them with food for the year...from what I understand, the stamp socs did relatively well this year..and I bet they taste jsut as good an our fraser socs

With sporties shut out this year, I cant see how they can justiffy a group from the cowichan further reducing the numbers that make it back to spawn.

[winter steel]

Gooey, although it is difficult to believe, FN peoples from the Island and as far north as the Prince George area would come down to the lower Fraser to participate in the summer fishery. This event was called seasonal rounds, and all bands in the south coast would alternate their location given a certain time of year to gather food for the long winters. FN peoples were actually well travelled and permanent residence would only really occur during the winter months in their cedar homes near their winter food supplies of shellfish. Your right the Cowichan and other bands, would rely on their local rivers for food , but that was only in the fall and it is a relatively short period to gather a sufficient amount. In regards to fishing out in the ocean in the summers, how would they do that back then? Nets twined from cedar and dog hair do not hold up too well to salt. Trolling, (with what bait, lures, or hooks, halibut hooks were carved out of bone and 9 times out of 10 were swallowed, carved salmon hooks, probably not) and spear chucking a coho or chinook is neither practical or realistic. Thus, the only creatures that FN's peoples were able to hunt in the ocean in the summer time were whales, sea lions and seals. Perhaps they can give us a hand and take care of some of those harbour seals that seem to be doing a number on our local fish . I agree that modern technology has aided the FN "ceremonial" fishery and then some, but it is difficult to put patent on "you can use that technology only if you have invented it".  If that was the case I wouldn't let you use bugs for springs Unfortunately, the federal government handles the Fraser issue carefully without ruffling feathers and that in my opinion does nothing but to extend the problem year after year. The Fisheries Act needs to be better defined and include all interested parties with the aim that conservation comes first and each group be held accoutable to the fullest extent that the law allows. The Cheam band have little respect for the Canadian government and its laws, especially when those laws conflict with their ability to take advantge of a given situation, such as the Fraser Fishery. Tight Lines, Winter Steel