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Author Topic: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure  (Read 18888 times)

Floater

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2005, 11:52:34 PM »

coho cody..good on ya kid! its nice to see a boy as young as you get involved in fishing. i can tell by that smile on your face it was a pretty good thrill. you have shown your fishing prowess to us many times and i know you released every sockeye carefully back. The roe kid and coho cody you guys keep up the good work. AHEM! as for our resident fisheries biologist..please move your guilty statements to the discussion area where it belongs.and......try to relax man. the natives do more harm to sockeye in one year than this young lad will ever do in his lifetime trying to catch springs.
Couldent of said it better why are we complaining to each other about our methods that do the least harm when the FN fishery has the highest cost on the fish.
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Steelhawk

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2005, 01:01:21 AM »

Here is a link to see the insignificance of our 'damage' to the sockeye.   I don't buy the DFO statements when they let the natives harvest socs by potent driftnets weeks in & weeks out.  If conservation is at risk, those nets should not be allowed.  Then there are the test fisheries.  If the stock is that low, the test fisheries are taking them by thousands daily, and they should be stopped to preserve every fish.  See this link:

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fos2_Internet/Testfish/rptCSbD.cfm?stat=CPE

This is where the effort of trying to save the sockeyes should be directed.  If stock is dangerously low, all fisheries should be stopped like the effort to protect the Thompson coho.  In that case, even bar-fishing with C/R is not allowed, as they can catch the wrong fish too.

Contrary to DFO preaching of gloom & doom, many fishers report lots of socs, rivaling even the best years.  There are also very few dead socs drifting by.  While I respect some forum members' concern for fish mortality, there are just not the evidence at the river.  Even if there are a few dead fish drifting down, we cannot rule out that they die out of net suffocation by the nets in the canyon section of the Fraser, or by high temperature, or by the drift nets of the natives, perhaps by seal bites.  Therefore should we hammer the poor, long suffering sporties to death with guilt & all sorts of damning reasons while he/she is trying to have a good day break from the office, fishing with only a rod & a hook? If you buy DFO's story, the efforts to save the socs should be directed to have them stop the FN, even test fisheries, 'cause these already took tens of thousands of socs, and will keep on taking them by untold numbers,  while sporties's official record is zero.

So, to the BBers who want to fish springs selectively, just cast way, way out there in the strongest flow with heavy betties, and don't drift past 45 degrees.  Yes, BBing can be selective.  I didn't even hit 1 soc in the last trip.






« Last Edit: August 19, 2005, 01:17:03 AM by funfish »
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Gooey

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2005, 08:05:25 AM »

Coho Cody, funfish, floater, etc, etc...I know that not everyone will care to hear what I have to say.  So do this one thing for me, ask yourself this question:

Who on Fishing With Rod do I really respect.  Which persons from FRW gives large amounts of their personal time to protecting and improving our treasured sport.  For me personally, I would have to give huge respect to guys like Rod and Chris Gadsen. 

Each person will have a certain individual who they can really identify with and respect.  So figure out who that is for each one of you.

Now send them a PM, ask them what they think of flossing in general, ask them what they think of flossing springs when the socs are closed and stocks are weak.  Ask them what they would do if DFO requested that they don't floss the fraser.

like I said, not everyone will acknowledge what I have to say...so find that person who you respect and get their feedback on the current environment...maybe you will be surprised by what they say.  Heck maybe I would be!
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JustinG

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2005, 09:31:37 AM »

I spent some time with a few of the DFO hatchery staff in the north last year. These are the guys who do the front line work and from what they were seeing and hearing from thier collegues from the spawning grounds it would be tough to justify any type of fishery. The most notible conversation included how some smaller Fraser feeder streams didn't get ONE returning sockeye. I just thought I would pass that little peice of info on.

Even if the sockeye are closed, it is important that there are sportfishermen on the river, to act (even if it is not the intent) as observers. There is a native lobby which is working hard to have the river closed competely to sportfishermen while they are fishing - less eyes watching the river.

Whatever method you choose to fish with, bring a camera.

Just my 2 cents,
Justin.


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fishersak

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2005, 10:24:50 AM »

Hmmmm, that is a good point Justin. Guys on the water (either BB or BF), is probably acting as a deterent to some poaching.  So it can be said that that presence itself has some positive effect on the harvesting of Sockeye.
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Geff_t

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2005, 11:09:39 AM »

myself and the guys that i fish with always have a camera on hand. And it is not just to get pictures of our fish. It also helps to identify illigally caught fish weather it be fn or not.
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Floater

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2005, 02:01:09 PM »

Coho Cody, funfish, floater, etc, etc...I know that not everyone will care to hear what I have to say.  So do this one thing for me, ask yourself this question:

Who on Fishing With Rod do I really respect.  Which persons from FRW gives large amounts of their personal time to protecting and improving our treasured sport.  For me personally, I would have to give huge respect to guys like Rod and Chris Gadsen. 

Each person will have a certain individual who they can really identify with and respect.  So figure out who that is for each one of you.

Now send them a PM, ask them what they think of flossing in general, ask them what they think of flossing springs when the socs are closed and stocks are weak.  Ask them what they would do if DFO requested that they don't floss the fraser.

like I said, not everyone will acknowledge what I have to say...so find that person who you respect and get their feedback on the current environment...maybe you will be surprised by what they say.  Heck maybe I would be!
Im sorry but i didnt really understand the point of what you said if its you find out the ethics behind floosing i can make up my own mind about it and i dont need to ask anyone plus i dont have a boat so i cant bar fish if i did i wouldent floss but thats life and you cant have it all.
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Geff_t

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2005, 02:46:00 PM »

weel put floater I to do not have a boat nor the bucks to by different gear for when people do not want you to fish a certain way. I wish I did but reality is I do not. Just play them quick release them safely. Fish with a shorter leader.
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Sterling C

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2005, 03:15:57 PM »

Floater, you don't need a boat to barfish, there are many barfishing area's which have shore access. If you'd like some help finding a place to fish from shore PM me.

Funfish, I challenge you to find me one example of a seasoned sockeye fisherman who can claim this rivals one of the better years. Although I personally haven't been BB'ing latley I've still been out on the river and have watched/talked to many people on the river and I can tell you that either the fish aren't here in big numbers OR the people who choose to BB for springs are green horms and can't fish.

Oh ya, and for the reccord, yes I do fish for sockeye, as soon as it opens I will be the first one standing in line but until that happens, leave the BB's at home.
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Steelhawk

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2005, 06:43:05 PM »

Biffchan, the last 10 days or so have seen large schools of sockeyes in sockeye bars.  Some friends have booked vacation ready for the sockeye fishery by camping in upper Fraser areas.  They now had to turn to spring fishing.  Most of them are hard-nosed, seasoned BB rods and they are not internet-active like me.  I had close connections with them via cell phone while they are on the river, trying to determine for myself whether it is worthwhile to drive up there after work to try for a spring.  Their reports are real & credible.

Personally, even though I did not hook into a sockeye in my last trip, my fishing partner, a relatively green rod (Auroa, a FWR member) drifting closer in, hooked into 10 socs in a deeper spot closer to shore.  He reeled each in quickly and released them in the water properly.  The fish were mostly strong & robust. He proclaimed he never had such success.  Most fishermen in the bars admitted that sockeye fishing, even as a by catch,  is way, way better than the last 2 years.  Since I did not want to connect with socs, I motioned to move to another location in the bar where I know the water springs will likely hold. There I hooked into my spring which I reported in the last fishing report I made.  There you have it, I don't make statements based on innuendo, they are from real fishermen currently fishing, not guessing.  By the way, my friends reported spring fishing really slow in the last 2 days.   

Gooey, whether you believe it or not, I have a lot of respect for you.  You obviously is a seasoned rod with deep knowledge and contribute your knowledge to the fishing public by your huge # of posts. I salute your unselfish sharing of experiences.

But I hope you respect that every body has a different way looking at things. We came from different upbringings, ethnic groups, education or native countries.  A person coming from places where famines or starvations are rampant will view fishing very differently as local Canadians. To the rest of the food-starving world, seeing Canadian fishermen turning their back on millions of fish, even a legal sockeye fishery, because of the mere argument of fishing approaches or ethics, is something difficult to fathom.  So, who has the high moral ground to justify their position in the wide spectrum of human morality about fishing?  On one side you have PETA implying us as cruel criminals to animals, on the other side you have the poachers who can't care less about animals.  I say forget about disputing on the point of ethics.  As long as there is no announced closure for springs, each fisher should be respected to his/her own judgement of whether he fishes for them or not. Trying to ridicule them or insult them with crimes or guilt is counter-productive to unity among fishermen.  Why not turn your anger to DFO, FN, and the 'real' poachers who took millions of socs year after year with potent drift nets.
 
While the official record of sockeye retention is zero for sporties, but over 310,000 for FN & 60,000 for assessment fisheries (who gets the $ for these fish?), and with more FN openings forth-coming, don't you think your push to save every sockeye, noble as it is, is finding the wrong target.  To so easily crown your fellow fishers on this forum who choose to BB for springs as 'equivalent to FN poachers' is really uncalled for and imflamatory.

As far as Chris & Rod.  Well guys, these two are rare gems of the sport fishing community, no doubt about it. Their unselfish dedication to the cause of fishing is highly admirable.  But does this mean all forum members have to fish like them? Well, to be like Chris, you need to be retired, living close to fishing paradise of Chilliwack, possess a ML craft, and have a wife who can tolerate not seeing him all the time while he is fighting for the cause of fishing......Hmmm, he is a rarity, too hard to find in real life.  ;D
To be like Rod, you need to have a fishing girlfriend, host a fishing site, take lots of kids fishing & have unlimited patience..... Hmmm, another rarity again.     ;D   
OK, I will try their Fraser fishing style.  But yuk, I hate to doze off in a chair while fishing for Fraser salmon, or wandering around to collect stones.  ;D  I like to exercise my arm muscles all day.  ;D  So in that sense, their style of fishing is too hard to emulate for me.  Me, what a bummer fisherman I am, choosing pain over comfort.   :)  No offense to BF, but it takes a certain personality to like it. 

Honestly, we respect these two gents not just because of their contribution to fishing, but also because they show utmost tolerance & respect for others who choose to fish differently but legally from them.  Even though they stand firm on their fishing approaches, they have never been known to throw out inappropriate statements or name-callings towards others who don't happen to fish the same way.  They do it by gentle pursuasion, information & education. For that I applaud them.  :D  Unity among the brotherhood of fishermen, and uniting us to fight the greater evil or harm to fish stock (uncontrolled FN nettings) is way more important in their mind than squabbling about minor issues.

« Last Edit: August 19, 2005, 11:18:01 PM by funfish »
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Rodney

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2005, 07:09:38 PM »

I'm a rare gem... :-[ :o

The other gem is on his way back from some spring jack fishing. ;)

Flossers debating with flossers, that's what happens when you keep the sockeye fishery closed. ;D Very good points from all sides, and the mods appreciate you all for keeping it civil. :)

gman

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2005, 08:22:40 PM »

Funfish, good post.

While less sockeye than expected, there are lots in the river. Even DFO says in the releasse today that summer runs will exceed 3 million fish. Not a huge run, but bigger than many years where sockeye sport fishing was opened. Also I expect that it will end up being a fair amount higher. The sport fishery as is, even if opened, would not be a significant factor on the sockeye in comparison to their numbers, and to the netting going on. If you are really concerned about the sockeye call DFO with a push to reduce the netting.

Sport fishermen need to be united. Personally I wouldn't care much if they never opened sockeye fishign again. But if you argue to keep sockeye closed, and ban BBing, and I argue that catch and release of wild steelhead should be shutdown, and another guy says there should be a bait ban due to mortality, another says we should only flyfish, and another says sturgeon fishing should be shut down and....   well pretty soon we'll all be at home watching tv instead of fishing. On the other end if there is a genuine real conservation concern, there is no doubt the fishery should be closed.

Just my 2 cents.



« Last Edit: August 19, 2005, 08:50:27 PM by gman »
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rerigger

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2005, 08:40:50 PM »

not short but well said funfish

i wonder how much ;D a halo weighs ?? :o
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blaydRnr

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Re: Fraser August 16
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2005, 10:40:38 PM »

 

 

   

Why are people so hungry for springs that they endanger sockeye in the process?




wasn't it you and bp who posted pictures of reds caught on the vedder?...about 3 weeks ago?.... didn't you also state that you managed to hook on to a couple of sox in the process?

for someone who's so critical of others, and claims to know so much... you sure don't know when you're sticking your foot in your mouth.

...and just in case i don't have my facts straight about you catching sox, the fact is... you where targeting springs, while there were sox in the river (a smaller system, than the fraser river) :-X.....and don't try to justify it by saying, 'you weren't bb or flossing'....because we both know that's irrelevant.
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Sterling C

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Re: C & R Fraser River sockeye salmon during the closure
« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2005, 10:49:36 PM »

Blaydrunner, there's a huge difference between catching sockeye in the vedder and the fraser. The Vedder runs considerably cooler than the Fraser which means way less stress on the fish. As well, the Vedder fish right now are spawning in the tribs of Chilliwack lake, those fraser fish right now are bound for the Cariboo. Lastly, early fraser sockeye are suffering from supposed low numbers, whereas the Vedder river socks are doing fine. And don't give me any of that endangered Cultas Lake sockeye B.S. those guys aren't around till late fall. The first one passed the fence this past week.
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