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[Old Black Dog]

And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?

[Matuka Jack]

I agree with Rod.  Protest fishery is not the answer.  I believe the answer is class action law suit to be filed with the United Nations.   What is happening is racial descrimination as implemented using the Canadian Constitution (BNA Act).  Hence, we must work to repeal the parts of the constitution that are descriminatory and force to bring about amendments such that all Canadians be treated fairly and equitably.  Just my $0.02.

[liketofish]

If no protest fishery, then what?  FN & the Cheam didn't get their generous treatment by DFO or the Liberals for being civil.  We should at least have a media-covered demonstration in front of FN openings, or all DFO premises.  Net them all up so those cowards cannot go back to work next week.  Sorry Rodney, sporties & commies' patience has run out.

[chris gadsden]

Even though I am now at Duncan playing in the Senior games in badminton I would set tight on this idea of a protest fishery.

I feel we have the public on our side after all that went on in the press and the TV  reports that have put the Cheam band in a very bad light. My feeling if we go at this time with a protest we may loss all we have gained. I have sympathy for those that did not get a sockeye fishery and I guess I was right with my perdiction nearly 3 weeks ago that it would come down to the politics of it all to prevent a rec fishery

FOC was able to stall long enought that the fish were not in the river so no opening and now they can say the endangered runs are in so once again no opening.

Lets sit tight for this season on a protest and see what developes and I believe the SDA should be the lead on most of this. The way to help is make a donation, through the mail or drop some in a bucket at the sports shops.

The badminton is going ok won two matchs and just lost one 17-16 in singles. I had the serve at 16 and blew it. Just like losing a fish as you bend down to pick it up. Still in the running for the gold though. Got to go and play mixed doubles now. Will fish a bit of a fishing
report when time permits.

With the endangered runs in the Lower FN bands should be out of the water too.

[Gooey]

Rod, you stated:
FYI, for a rec opening to happen:

If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share  approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share  approx 19k Comm share approx 356)

Is this writen in stone...will dfo give us the opening if by tomorrow the run is estiomated at 5+ mil.  where did these numbers come from?

I say give them a day and see what they and the numbers say tomorrow.

[rerigger]

a protest fishery is not the answer
yhe answer is to deny access to all public launches to commercial or
quasie commercial traffic
a welll organizied campaign could work wonders

[No_way]

And what will be the gain of a protest fishery?
What is the point you are trying to get across?
Who will be the spokesman?
How will it look to the general public?
Will DFO actually listen?

Old Black Dog has the right idea here.  None of his questions have effectively been answered.  Most of what I've read here is all rage with neither form nor substance.

Don't get me wrong, after reading what I've had about recent fishing activities of the FN fishers I'm as frustrated as the next angler; however, it seems clear that this protest and (protests like it) are reactionary, emotional, juvenile, and counter productive.

I've been involved in A LOT of political activism for many years, and I've seen this type of thing before more times than I can count.  And every single time I've seen it the outcome has inevitable been the same: frustration, dissolution, public outrage.

Don't think for a moment that the commercial fisherman are doing any of this for you as anglers.  The commercial fishers have bigger problem than to worry about sportfishers.  I urge you all not to throw your lots in with them.

Killing fish just to show that there are fish to be killed is patently ridiculous.  The problem is that the subject is an emotional one and otherwise intelligent and insightful people (which you surely all are under less tense circumstances) have their anger and drive misdirected.

Many have questioned: "if not a protest fishery, then what?"  This is the most important question, isn't it?  "Doing Something" is not necessarily better than "Doing Nothing"--especially when that something is the frustrated, sensless and selfserving degradation of the fish stocks. 

What else then?  Well, here is my take:

-Protection of the fish stocks must be the singular focus of any action.  There once were and hopefully will  be again enough fish for all people to harvest responsibily

-There are people from ALL communities that have this priority and ALL these people must be involved.  The only "We and They" and that has a place in this struggle is "we, the conservation minded" and "they, the selfserving resource destroyers".

-The target of any action should and must be the government, period.  Not to sick them on the FN, but to protect the environment and its wild life from all destructive forces: mining, fishfarms, logging runoff, irresponsible anglers, destructive methods of commercial fishing, poor waste disposal, general over fishing and so on.  The damage done by First Nations fishers is a mere drop in the bucket compared to all of the other causes of diminished fish stalks that one wonders why it is so overemphasized. 

[allwaysfishin]

we can make all the excuses we want to NOT get involved.
Point is... this is Canada, we are all tax paying , liscence buying, citizens and a good majority of us have a true concern for the resources in our country. However, we are often compared to sheep in our balking at taking direct non violent action in protest of governments decisions. I have no doubt that the scenarios being played out on local waters are a direct result of Federally mandated plans to appease the First Nations of this country. Being Metis and being denied any such rights in this province, my opportunities to harvest are restricted to Sport openings for hunting and fishing, not so in other provinces. I will rise to the call as a concerned angler.
I want you all to take a hard look at last years test set numbers versus this years test set numbers for the sockeye migration and DFO's actions based on those numbers. We got an opening last year.... we should have one this year.
Herein lies the real problem and those who will disagree may do so.
We are being denied access to this fishery because DFO and the RCMP do not have the werewithall nor the mandate to control FN harvest. If they open commercial and sport, FN's will not comply with ANY closures applied to thier fisheries. So, It is my belief that DFO is currently trying to negotiate a "closure to the FN season" and realize they can't "ORDER" the FN's to cease thier harvest nor can they "ASK" them to stop if they were to open the other sectors.

I fully realize that the recreation access to the Sockeye fishery in "non-tidal" Fraser is a relatively new fishery. It is but a drop in the bucket when compared to the multitude of other non restricted fishing opportunites we have in B.C.. However we all have to realize that actions like what we see now from FN's will continue to dictate our access to future opportunities in other water sheds as well as other resources such as hunting.
  While I do not agree with the fish killing results of a protest fishery, I do not see any other means of rattling the cages of the powers that be.
Is every forum member here who comments on these topics willing to gather together, take a day or two off work, pay for fuel and ferry costs and show up on the legislature lawns in protest of the total lack of control that this province has on the FN fishery??
.... I just don't see that happening

[Bantam_50]

*shakes his head*

Sure lets all run out and support a Commey protest fishery.   

 You guys are unbelievable. 

 If DFO had opened socks up tomorrow and also let the commercial boys go in ... you'd all be running to floss show this weekend, only to be bitching and moaning come Sunday night how the commercial nets are like vacuum cleaners and sucked the river dry. And then it's "Oh whoa is me" all over again. 

Rod thanx for the post trying to inform these knuckleheads. I've been trying to tell you ....Your sock fest is NOT happening, live with it, go catch some pinks, gets ready for the Vedder ... life goes on. In between these times, sport angling groups will do what's required to forward and alleviate concerns with the FN harvests. Your letters and

*slips on flak jacket*

Ok fire away.

[Old Black Dog]

The problem is quite simple, WE THE SPORTS ANGLERS ARE NOT ORGANIZED.

Until we either join a group or set one up we are nothing, just a bunch of people who talk about how it should be.

So, join a group that is doing something, NOW!

SDA, BCFDF, BCWF are trying, not sure of any others!

GET INVOLVED NOW, before it is all gone!

[allwaysfishin]

Bantam.... shake your head again
this may be only about a simple opening for many folks. The principal issue here is that FN "dictates" to DFO how and when they will fish. DFO HAS NOT held them accountable for the exact numbers of thier harvest to date AND FN's have been and currently are BREAKING THE LAWS that we ALL are governed by, with impunity I might add.
If you don't find this unnaceptable and are not willing to lend your efforts to the struggle, content to sit on the sidelines and mock those who dare speak out, shame on you you
you are behaving like the  poor little sheep that the feds hope you will, ba'aa'aaa

[Rodney]

Is this writen in stone...will dfo give us the opening if by tomorrow the run is estiomated at 5+ mil.  where did these numbers come from?

I say give them a day and see what they and the numbers say tomorrow.

The information was copied and pasted from an email I received from the Fraser River Panel/DFO.

If the run size reaches what were listed in the criteria, yes an opening would be granted. Do you think the run size will spike up by 0.5 million overnight?

[Bantam_50]

this may be only about a simple opening for many folks. The principal issue here is that FN "dictates" to DFO how and when they will fish. DFO HAS NOT held them accountable for the exact numbers of thier harvest to date AND FN's have been and currently are BREAKING THE LAWS that we ALL are governed by, with impunity I might add.

allwaysfishin ... prove it? Where's your proof FN dictates DFO? Do you hold some documented memo? At best you, like many other ignoramus's here just speculate IYOO's what is transpiring. Last time I looked ... all those FN  openings were Supreme court approved. Not sure what laws you have evidence to take to court other than what DFO has on it's '05 file.

If you care to play the Piped Piper ... have at it ... when the six o'clock camera's start rolling ... peek over your shoulder and check how many followers you'll have from here.  I always enjoy a good 6 o'clock news.   

[Rodney]

The problem is quite simple, WE THE SPORTS ANGLERS ARE NOT ORGANIZED.

Here is a question.

To those who are all for a protest, have you:

• Joined the Fraser Valley Salmon Society this year?
• Donated money to the Sportfishing Defence Alliance?

You people realize that when I attend the SFAC meetings, I do not represent Fishing with Rod, instead I represent the Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition? Your posts on here give me a better understanding on what the angling community is saying, but I will not be voicing your ideas at the meetings. This forum is a great way to exchange information etc, but that's about it. By whining about a fishing closure is useless and not constructive. Like OBD said, be organized! Join an organization that voices your interests.

[blaydRnr]

FYI, for a rec opening to happen:

• If the run size stays at 4.5M - no changes status quo
• If run size is upgraded to 5.0M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 165k (rec share  approx 8k. Comm share approx 157)
• If run size is upgraded to 5.5M - Cdn TAC for com and rec is approx. 375k (rec share  approx 19k Comm share approx 356)

at this point, does these numbers really mean anything? considering they've failed to monitor FN catches, why bother with statistics? especially if they don't use it for the good of the sockeye stocks?

i don't necessarily want to kill a sockeye to get my point across, but i wouldn't mind bonking an MLA or two 

a protest is necessary. not so much to retain fish, but to retain fair legislation and mandate.

civil unrest (not referring to violence) is the only thing that governments respond to. history proves that.