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[Gooey]

ALL OF YOU have it wrong...but, frankly eddie is the closest.

As with the opening of the spring fishery, as with the opening of the pink fishery, as with the arrival of thompsons coho:

DFO DOES NOT WANT US FLOSSING THE FRASER IN THESE TIMES!   

Do you notice the sockeye fishery notices do not call for selective methods?  IMHO DFO allows us to floss sockeye because of their numbers and unwillingness to bite a presentation in the fraser.  DFO repeatedly indicates they doent want us flossing outside of sockeye openings...why do people disregard that?  THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION!

Lots of people on this board have kids.  What happens if you request that your kid not do something and then they turn around and do it.  Can't speak for all you other parents but I personally would: 1) remove access to that thing 2) possibly punish the child.

Now we are not children anymore but we collectively are thumbing our noses at the body responsilbe for CONTROLLING our fishery! 

What if they ban bottom bouncing...there goes the sockeye fishery, what if they just close the river down all together?   

If I were DFO both of those outcomes would be a real possibility. 

Think about that the next time you floss when DFO has asked you not to.

[Fish Assassin]

Eddie: Bottom bouncing is a legitimate form of fishing and not snagging providing you are using a short leader.

[liketofish]

Eddie-99, may be I am a newbie poster and you are a senior member. Are you there underwater to see the fish not biting the wool when the fish is hooked in the mouth?  I agree that fish can be hooked outside the mouth when flossing/lining sockeyes.  That is a possibility when there are too many fish.  Springs are not as numerous, and if springs bite wool in the Vedder, what make you so sure that the fish do not bite in clearer water as is now, as funfish suggests?  I don't care how many years fishing you have, as long as you have not dived down there and see every hookup, you cannot be sure if a bite occurs or not? I have been fishing since 5 years old and I am 40+ now, so I do have an opinion  just as valid as many senior posters on this forum. There are many experienced fishers who are not biased and do practise bb when it comes to the Fraser fishery.

[DragonSpeed]

Page 8:  Provincial Regs:

snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body than the mouth.
Attempting to snag fish of any species is prohibited. Any fish willfully or accidently snagged must be released immediately.

[Steelhawk]

Eddie, you don't ask a question - you just raised an accusation by implying all BBers are snaggers.  Your intent to belittle or humiliate BBers are quite obvious by repeatedly using the term 'snagging'.  DFO does not ticket people BBing, and so for DFO they do not interpret flossing/lining as snagging, as compared to the natives way of snagging with treble hooks, or to those individuals snagging pinks intentionally in the lower Fraser with a big sideway swing.  BBers aim to hook the fish in the mouth, not the body as real snaggers will do, particularly the under-belly.  Very few fish on the Fraser bars are hooked in the under-belly.

BBing in a high form allows the fishers to map out the river bottom as if they are touching it by their hands.  Good BBers can read the Fraser flow to determine the travel path & the sitting holes of the mighty springs.  Many people can bounce aimlessly, but only selected few can consistently produce one or multiple spring hookups in a day.  Many also master the skill enough to avoid unnecessary hookups with sockeyes.  With the water clearing, I personally saw many springs hooked squarely inside the mouth.  What make someone so sure that these springs don't bite a well-presented wool by BBing on the Fraser?

Let's show some respect in other fishers' choice to legal fishing methods and we will have less contention and more unity.  Scales made this unselfish post to inform others to go out & enjoy a strong run of springs. Nice guy.  That is all to it.
 

I said I wouldnt respond to scales and I wont. I will respond to you however. What you just said about BB is snagging. You are "snagging" the fish in the mouth. Whats the difference of snagging it in the mouth or in the belly? Its just that it makes it legal and thats the only difference. The fish are not biting your wool so dont get me started on the art of BB becasue their is no art. Its just perfecting a way in which you can snag the fish in the mouth and thats the bottom line. Let not turn this into a snagging debate as that's not what I intended it for. I got my answer from scales and thats all I wanted. Anyone thinking that BB is not snagging is just fooling himself. I wont be responding to anyone else that wants to debate this since I have already heard it all.

Eddie, just respect other people can have an opinion and fishing experience different from yours.  You cannot make a conclusion for other people's fishing experiences or the enjoyment of their way of fishing as long as it is permitted under the law.  You don't fish BBing, so you cannot make that conclusion that others cannot have a BBing experience different from yours.  Some people hate the sound of violin when they start playing it. They stopped.  Others push on and find ways to produce wonderful music.  That is the way it is.  Different people can come to different conclusion.  Being a senior member of this forum does not give you the right to blatantly override other people's conclusion about a fishing method.  If you don't like fishing it this way, just do something else that you enjoy.  No one is going to harrass you like you tend to do it to others.  Relax and enjoy your fishing in peace.

[bbronswyk2000]

I see I am outnumbered here, as 90% of you floss multiple species of salmon. So I am done talking about flossing/snagging. Please dont direct your flossing/snagging comments towards me anymore as I am done with it. The only person that agree's with me is Gooey and thats a rare occasion. Dont reply to me dont PM me or e-mail in regards to this anymore. I will be happy to teach people how to barfish, throw metal, float fish, flyfish etc. I came on this site last year for the purpose of trying to educate people and share my experiences with others. Even though I dont feel the same way as 90% of you I hope that we can put this behind us and move on.

Have a nice day. 

[Gooey]

FA and Like to Fish are key examples of the problem (no offence guys)...no one seems to care that DFO doesnt want us flossing the fraser out side of sockeye season.

As well, maybe we need to define snagging better.  IMO, snagging is anytime a fish is hook when the hook up wasnt caused by a STRIKE.   As well, the hook should be in the mouth (and to me that means INSIDE the mouth point going inside to outside).   So FA if you floss a fish on a 2 foot leader, its hooked in the scissors outside to in....its snagged in my books.

Flossing does not induce a strike.   Otherwise, leaders wouldnt need to be 12-15-even 20 feet long now a days.

Blade, your excert from the book begins: "bottom bouncing as a type of jigging".  The author was not referring to the type of bottom bouncing done from shores of the fraser - we certainly don't "jig" when we bottom bounce.  I also wonder what the regs looked like back then...do you think snagging was outlawed then...maybe not even defined!

This post, just like the rest is mostly off target becaue the simple point is:   DFO doesnt want us flossing the fraser out side of sockeye season!  No one can argue with that....I guess thats we everyone chooses to avoid that point! 

[BwiBwi]

Hmm I'm not too sure about the inside outside thing that would take too many excepts.
I caught a flounder off Qualicom beach during summer, using prawn as bait jigging from boat the hook was from underneath jar into mouth. What should this be called? Striknag?

[JackFunk]

Just because flossing is 'legal' doesn't make it moral.

Angling - "the art of inducing the fish to willingly take your offering"

Why not just get out with a drift net or dip net? You are just single strand netting, not angling.

One of the big problems with flossing is that is spreads to other rivers and systems. I had a talk with a fellow on the Ambleside fishing dock from Ontario. With great gusto he went into explaining how he was the master of this new type of fishing called 'flossing'. How he and his buddies caught 70 fish in the Seymour last year, yada, yada.

This guy now thinks that flossing is acceptable everywhere, and that's a growing concern of mine.

I chuckle at everyone sidestepping the moral issue and hiding behind the 'legality'. Esp as the DFO has been asking for selective methods.

[Rodney]

FA and Like to Fish are key examples of the problem (no offence guys)...no one seems to care that DFO doesnt want us flossing the fraser out side of sockeye season.

The anglers maybe the problem, but why not fix the problem by going directly to the root of the problem. The root of the problem? Those who regulate the fishery. Just think, if people use the amount of time and energy spend on typing up these "debates" to consult with DFO to finetune the regulations, how different the fishery can be now....

I highly recommend you guys to ask DFO staff why the size of the weight, the length of the leader are not regulated.

So FA if you floss a fish on a 2 foot leader, its hooked in the scissors outside to in....its snagged in my books.

Yep, in YOUR book, but that's not the regulation synopsis now is it?

Thompson River coho and steelhead, are aggressive biters. They are very willing to take a spin n glow, a spoon, a spinner. Should barfishing, spincasting be prohibited in the month of September as these fishing methods are not selectiveily targeting chinook and pink salmon?

Has anyone considered what the impact on the chinook populations would be if everyone barfishes in the Fraser Valley? Please don't tell me that you know it would be minimal, because comparative studies of chinook harvest between barfishing and flossing have never been done. To determine which method is more efficient, more damaging to a fish stock, you need to first know the CPUE (catch per unit effort) of both fishing methods.

This is exactly why I can't take people seriously when they start pulling out hypothetical numbers to support their argument, an insult to science.

90% of you guys floss for various species of salmon? That's awful, I didn't know that and now I am disgusted! I guess FWR is pretty unethical after all...

You now what's really ethical? Stop fishing.

You know what's even more ethical? Sit in that chair for the rest of your life, it would cause minimal damage to the world that we share with other organisms.

[DragonSpeed]

I had a feeling we'd end up over here in the not too distant future

[BwiBwi]

Good one Rodney. No matter how you fish. Fishing is having fun while inflicting pain on others. (in this case --fish).

[Gooey]

Rod, you are actually more wrong than right regarding what is a snagged fish. 

Go to the DFO web site
click the fresh water regs
click "the Law and Fishing" (http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/recfish/Law/restrictions_e.htm) and voila:
 
It is illegal too:
 - wilfully foul hook or attempt to foul hook any fish other than herring, northern anchovy, Pacific sand lance and squid. To avoid foul hooking (snagging) fish, anglers should aim to induce the fish to take the hook in its mouth.

This last sentance dictates that any flossed fish is snagged...its just a matter of enforcement (as I have always pointed out).

[Rodney]

What are you talking about Gooey? I didn't even bring up the definition of a snagged fish.

<edit> ya ok, I see what you are talking about now. So.... Those pinks that I caught with the hook embedded in the chin instead of the mouth lately.. Are they snagged?

[dennisK]

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