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[All Tangled Up]

Hey Gooey, what's your opinion on chucking lures for salmon in river current? I watched Sportfishing BC last year and Mark P. was tossing lures into the current and 3 out of the 4 beauty Coho he landed appeared to be hooked from the outside in on the opposing side of the mouth(just like flossing the Fraser). I am just curious about this because anytime I can see fish in the Vedder while someone is chucking lures the fish do their best to get the heck out of the way.

[Gooey]

Earlier in this thread I said I wouldnt consider a steelhead that took a pink worm and got the hook in the side of the jaw a foul hooked fish...the fish was induced into striking the worm.  Same goes for spinners, spoons, etc

Coho on hardware is one of my favorite fisheries - spinner, spoon, and jigs...nothing beats watching a coho track it down and smack your lure.  If the fish hits the spoon itself and the hook then is pulled into the side of the jaw, under this scenario,  I wouldnt be concerned and consider it snagged - afterall, the fish was "induced" into comitting to a strike!

Flossing with 5 -15 feet of leader...there is no question what the fisher is trying to do...and its not inducing a strike! 

Thats the exact opposite of hardware fishing.

[buck]

Gooey

         Your not alone on your views of flossing and I know a lot of anglers who would support a total ban of this technique.

[blaydRnr]

Blade, very little in this world is that black and white.  I enjoy access to sockeye on the fraser, years back when had a boat, we trolled them.  Believe me when I say I would much rather troll sockeye so I can get that ocean fresh fight and have plenty of room to enjoy the battle (not to mention you can retain 4 fish).  So you're telling me that if I didn't floss the fraser, I would be more credible? 

I can buy that to a certain degree, but if all I did is troll socs, I wouldnt have any exposure/knowledge of the fraser fishery and I would probably be in a weaker position to comment on it.

I think we all agree sockeye stocks were strong this year...7 mill fish for the summer run, not ot mention the other runs.  I have no problem flossing a few (7 this year) for the freezer.  In july, pretty much all thats in the fraser in terms of salmon is some early springs, I could handle those stocks seeing some pressure from flossers too(because there is very little impact on closed/protected stocks). 

The big problem tho is the way the sports industry is evolving, any stock in any river is getting flossed to a noticable degree and people are flossing when DFO asks them not too.  Its obvious DFO has a tolerance for flossing in certain applications (as do I), that does not reduce either party's credibility!  IMO, what need to be done is the formation of strict guidelines for the use of flossing to minimise its impact on closed/protected stocks and to eliminate its use on small rivers like the vedder etc.

I have suggested that access to the sockeye run needs to be separated from our sport liscence with a  separate distinct permit or tag; this would distance it from the privileges of a standard fresh water liscence. 

I think that could be a large step forward in a grey world.

i respect your opinion and i'll leave it at that. now let's focus on the cohos.

[All Tangled Up]

Have you actually seen the fish target your lure Gooey? It's not that I don't believe it, just that the whole flossing fishery has made me skeptical of river fishing in general. I wish I could see through the water to watch the fish in motion when this happens to restore my faith in most river fishing. I have caught many fish over the few years that I have been out on various systems with both short and long leaders and I am not convinced that the majority(80+%) were not flossed. Now when I go to the rivers I seem to go to the extreme with shorter leaders(12") and fish well off the bottom, in hopes of catching a fish that I know(strongly believe) is not flossed.

[FishiN AddicT]

Earlier in this thread I said I wouldnt consider a steelhead that took a pink worm and got the hook in the side of the jaw a foul hooked fish...the fish was induced into striking the worm.  Same goes for spinners, spoons, etc

Coho on hardware is one of my favorite fisheries - spinner, spoon, and jigs...nothing beats watching a coho track it down and smack your lure.  If the fish hits the spoon itself and the hook then is pulled into the side of the jaw, under this scenario,  I wouldnt be concerned and consider it snagged - afterall, the fish was "induced" into comitting to a strike!

 

I'm a little confused......i understand about flossing.......but why is the examples you gave about steelhead and cohos an exception, but Rod's PINKS hooked under the chin (probably w/ his spoons) be considered SNAGGED?   Just in case you forgot it's on page 3 or 4 of this thread.  And the other post about your buddy using spinner blades hooking springs outside the scissors........you say he was flossing?  To me this is a little contradicting or is it only OK when YOU hook fish outside the mouth using hardware?  What makes you sure that Rod's Pinks or your buddy's Springs weren't induced to bite, but hook wasn't set properly?

[Matuka Jack]

Earlier in this thread I said I wouldnt consider a steelhead that took a pink worm and got the hook in the side of the jaw a foul hooked fish...the fish was induced into striking the worm.  Same goes for spinners, spoons, etc

Coho on hardware is one of my favorite fisheries - spinner, spoon, and jigs...nothing beats watching a coho track it down and smack your lure.  If the fish hits the spoon itself and the hook then is pulled into the side of the jaw, under this scenario,  I wouldnt be concerned and consider it snagged - afterall, the fish was "induced" into comitting to a strike!

Flossing with 5 -15 feet of leader...there is no question what the fisher is trying to do...and its not inducing a strike! 

Thats the exact opposite of hardware fishing.

Gooey,
There you go again.  Flossing is flossing. You can use spinner, spoon and jigs as well as many other hardware. A flossed fish is a flossed fish.  You can use them to floss a fish.  I know this from experience, where I know that the fish got lined (by accident ) before it got hook when I'm using hardware.  Once the fish was hook, all looks ok in everyone's eyes.  Some people are less than honest and would claim that the fish cought were not flossed when using hardware.  Except, I am honest and willing to admit that the fish can be flossed using hardware or lure.  In fact, if you use hardware you can set up your main line almost accross some narrow river (like some part of Chilliwack/Vedder R.) or stream.


So you can use 5 - 15 feet of leader or 5 - 300 feet of main line, flossing is flossing.  If people are going to floss the fish, you are going to have to redefine angling to prevent it.

You really did it this time.  You forced my hand into revealing secrets that people do not talk about.  Now the flossers can explore new ways to do it. 

[BwiBwi]

Oh wow no wonder there's big line up for BIG REELS. 

[Gooey]

All Tangled Up:
I know a couple pools were the water is dead slow.  Coho stack deep in there in the morning and rest in it thru out the day.  I have seen coho in this pool chase spinners, spoons, and my homemade jigs.  The fish seem to have a habit of waiting until you have 3 feet of line left before they hit....its insane!  YES I have watch it happen right in front of my eyes time and time again!  As I have said in other threads, this is one of my favourite fisheries an its weeks away (pray for rain).  No doubt in my mind that coho take bait as well...have faith my frind!

FishinAddict to address your questions:

- When Rod asked about a pink hooked under the chin, u said (probably w/ his spoons)...I assumed we were talking flossing at that time.

- That spring trip, my bud was float fishing  a colarado blade.  He was sweeping his drift thru the tail out where fish were stacking.  Its funny, our target was coho, we were releasing the springs...I dont think he knew exactly what was going on and after seeing 5 or so fish come back with the hook in the scissors, I was 95% so of what was happening.  As Matuka points out, thru experience it becomes easy to identify a flosed fish.

Each year I spend time finding the spoon, spinner, and jig colours that work best...it changes from year to year.  Notice how flossin has evolved?  No new terminal tackle, no new dressings for the hook, no new scents or attractants...just longer and longer leaders (leaders that often end up littering the river bed after a snag). 

Its not the guy that accidently flosses one on a spinner blade or while floating roe - those guys are trying to draw a strike from a fish...its the guys who go out there with the INTENTION of flossing a fish...thats the behaviour that needs to change.

I guess the thing that bugs me most is that the art of fishing is being lost.  Fishermen are cheating and getting lazy, they dont want to work for that strike, the don't want to refine their presentation...they want instant gratification and get it by throwing on a long leader and a chunk of lead. 

Unlike Matuka tho, I think some simple changes could have some very large impacts.

[All Tangled Up]

Do you have a favorite lure you'd like to share with me/us? I'd love to take one to the Vedder on my next outing to give it a try. If you'd rather not say that's understandable. Thanks for your insight and good luck when the rain comes.

[Gooey]

PM coming your way

[pepsitrev]

i prefer float fishing on the vedder as bbing is just a waste of time  besides you get more fish float fishing than you would bottom bouncing in that river

[Matuka Jack]

I prefer flyfishing the Chilliwack/Vedder myself. This way I do  not have to carry around lead.  I just carry rod, reel, fly and some tippit material.

[FishiN AddicT]

I guess the thing that bugs me most is that the art of fishing is being lost.  Fishermen are cheating and getting lazy, they dont want to work for that strike, the don't want to refine their presentation...they want instant gratification and get it by throwing on a long leader and a chunk of lead. 

 

I most certainly agree with ya Gooey!  Coho season is my fave.  I love how they're so aggressive when they attack my roe.  I'll be trying to chuck some lures this season tho & hope i do as well