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[Gooey]

Rod and any one else who cares to comment...we all are in agreement that flossing is out of control.  What other "bright ideas" does anyone have to curb flossing?

I think changes to the regs are needed, nothing else really has been suggested!

I would be willing to pay $150-200 for a better fishing experience.  Let dfo push flossers out with increaased regulations...sounds good to me!

[Rodney]

nothing else really has been suggested!

I did... in the last three posts actually, increase enforcement to take care of those who disobey the existing regulations before introducing more...

FYI, freshwater fishing licence fee does not go to the gov, it funds the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC.

Also FYI, freshwater licence sale has been steadily dropping in the last couple of years.

Today I had the pleasure to have lunch with the president of the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC. He and I discussed several ongoing issues, including this one. One of the identified problem that is consistently being reported, is the fact that regulations in this province are complicated to read and interpret for new anglers (not you, not me, new comers). By introducing more regulations on top of these, people will either just give up fishing, or go out there and do whatever they want anyways.

I would be willing to pay $150-200 for a better fishing experience. Let dfo push flossers out with increaased regulations...sounds good tome!

Gooey, the regulations are not designed just to accommodate you, because you are not a good representation of the angling public. That's not an insult, that's the truth. Most of the licenced individuals don't fish the way you do, earn the same amount as you do, fall in your age group, fish as much as you do, or fish as little as you do. You want a better fishing experience, spend more money for a trip to the north. This is why I often when the topics "I think the regulations should be....". Like you preached in another thread, join a sportfishing association, be represented or represent it, attend the SFAC meetings, make recommendations to DFO, and let the fishery managers to regulation the angling public.

[summersteel]

Rod, I couldn't agree with you less on this topic and thats rare..  What would extra enforcement do if there's nothing to enforce??  You can only enforce something if its in the regs.  Flossing IS the problem, and because it works so well with long leaders people do it.

 If you restrict leaders to 2 feet the flossing success would go down in a big way...and people might actually try to learn to get a fish to bite.  The fly fishing question is a non issue, a restriction can be applied to drift fishing or BBing only.

Matuka, I think you said that people will find a way, maybe it was someone else.  Well of course people will find a way.  Its just smart to eliminate as many ways to cheat as possible.

[Gooey]

Rod, I have writen it before, don't know if you read it...a buddy of mine (and marco's coinsidentally) got a ticket for a flossed coho (hook out side in, right thru the maxilla) at the tamahi.  $175 and they took the fish.  Flossing is illegal period.  I have always assertained that DFO non-enforcement against flossing on the fraser is creating an acceptance with the general fishing public that its OK to floss anywhere/anytime. 

Look at the demographics of fishers in BC and you will find many a very diverse group - ages, races, languages, etc.  Imangine if the speed limit was as grey as the fishing regs - it would be chaos!  the regs need to be as simple and clear as a speed limit sign - something EVERYONE can easily understand.

Now rod, I have not had anyone here disagree with the statment flossing is snagging.  If thats the case then all those new comers you refer to are unkowningly breaking the law (you agree right)... now your solution (more enforcement) will lead to a bunch of people getting fines.  Some of those fines I would be happy with because people knowingly work around the regs, but a lot would be levied against people who simply don't know any better.  Should they be fined for AMBIGUOUS regulations?  Thats an injustice if you ask me.

I think Bug Pumper makes an excellent point, and this just builds on that.  We need a clear, concise set of regs that DFO then can enforce.

[Old Black Dog]

Gooey, you trying to push a rope up a hill.

The province likes people to fish with wool, and leader length  is not important.
Just check all the rivers that only allow for flies only, no bait or lures allowed. That does not mean fly fishing.

Flossing has been around on all the rivers for years over 25 that I am aware of.

Jim Teeny was charged for flossing in the U. S. and convicted and he was using a fly line and showed everyone else how to do it on TV.

Fly shows done here in B.C. still show how to do it .

If you snag a fish you must let it go. If you catch it in the mouth you can keep it.

That's the law and as noted previously, at one of the Sports Shows held in Chilliwack, DFO asked people if they should do something and were told NO by the vast majority.

So, flossing is legal and does not always mean snagging!

[Gooey]

OBD, you are one of the only to come out and say flossing isnt snagging.

Word for word, the regs are: it is illegal to - wilfully foul hook or attempt to foul hook any fish other than herring, northern anchovy, Pacific sand lance and squid. To avoid foul hooking (snagging) fish, anglers should aim to induce the fish to take the hook in its mouth.

Please justify your answer with the above regulation in mind.

My position is that a flossed fish didnt bite, the fish was simply lined. As well, when I read the entire sentance ending in "hook in its mouth" I interpret the regs to mean hooked INSIDE the mouth.  I do not consider a flossed fish hooked  "in the mouth", I and most others consider that in the jaw.

Finally have you thought that the fraser river and now the vedder are HOT BEDS for flossers.  Have you considered that the demographic at that show was greatly skewed?

[Rodney]

Maybe you should be invited to the next Upper Fraser SFAC to make a presentation on these proposed regulation changes. It'll only be ten minutes long though, as the entire meeting is three hours and we have to fit dozens of fishery issues into those three hours.

My views on flossing have already been demonstrated by my absence during the sockeye flossery. I was simply giving you a better understanding on where all the major sportfishing affiliations and DFO stand on leader length and enforcement.

[chris gadsden]

Flossing has been around on all the rivers for years over 25 that I am aware of.

You are probaley correct but they did not know they were doing it.

When the sockeye opened on the Fraser a few years (7?) ago we all fished for them and a lot of us did not know the sockeye were not biting. Maybe I was a slow learner but it took me 2 or 3 season to figure it out that they were not biting. I had to have a small green spining glow on, thats what they liked to inhale, spent a few dollars on them. It was not until my boy caught two on three casts with a bare hook that I finally clued in.

Never again after that year did I take part in this type of fishing. By catching a fish if it is not biting my offering gives me no reward at all. As I have said before it is like going golfing and not hitting that white ball but walking up to the pin and drop the ball in for a hole in 0

When I see what goes on now on our rivers including the Vedder River if I am honest with myself I am partly to blame for this as I was on the FVSS team that got the all salmon species open including sockeye during several meetings with FOC a few years ago.

I am afraid at this time I donot have a real answer to this. There is band aid solutions but it would be great if we could change it by education as a lot of us try to do in posting how to make fish actually bite. Of course it is impossible with sockeye in the dirty Fraser. In clear water you can get them to bite as we have described a few times.

[ocean_going]

mANG , stop fishing... I know you are   perfect? and   so should every  around you
too  mang it's  fun and let's   respect the rulesso then  lets   Go Fishing? !!

[ocean_going]

and............ more   if they dont   bite  ? are we allowed to catch them?
floss and   grab
 ?
bite   Does that theY  seem more   Respectable   to catch
   ina fishers   head?  fish   are   Fish   no brain
 they gotta    caught  any way Let  them spawn I f u care about them then dont fish

[Trout Slayer]

quit sniffin glew.

[Big Steel]

No kidding eh!!!!!  What the heck was he tryin to say!!!!!

and............ more if they dont bite ? are we allowed to catch them?
floss and grab
 ?
bite Does that theY seem more Respectable to catch
 ina fishers head? fish are Fish no brain
 they gotta caught any way Let them spawn I f u care about them then dont fish

[pontooner]

didn't know boomhower was into FWR 

[Old Black Dog]

it is illegal to - willfully foul hook !
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The word is willfully, how do you plan to charge people as they are not willfully snagging.
You have seen people doing this and willfully snagging is easy to see.
Just using a long leader and drifting it would not come under the term willfully. If it did then all flyfishing in rivers using a sinking line would apply. As would any fishing using a wool fly with weight, regardless of the Length of the leader!
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Snagging(Foul Hooking).. hooking a fish in any other part of its body than the mouth.
Attempting to snag fish of any species is prohibited.
Any fish willfully or accidental snagged must be released immediately.(Taken from the Fresh water regulations)

___________________________________________________________________________________
I interpret the regs to mean hooked INSIDE the mouth.  I do not consider a flossed fish hooked  "in the mouth", I and most others consider that in the jaw.
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The word is YOU interpet, As noted the regs say"To avoid foul hooking (snagging) fish, anglers should aim to induce the fish to take the hook in its mouth"
___________________________________________________________________________________
So people who use wool and leaders are aiming to induce the fish to take the hook in the mouth, they are not snagging!

[Gooey]

Flossers bottom bouncing with 12 foot leaders are willfully snagging fish.  And a flossed fish has not taken the hook in its mouth, the hook has slammed into the side fof its face because of the way the fisherman fished it.

Flossing is snagging and if you think otherwise I'd guess you have been sharing glue with Ocean_going!