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[corc]

Hi, im a friend of some of the people in the pictures,..
they are very responsible offroaders,
there is nothing wrong with driving down a muddy road..
the only thing hurt is themselves...

And the person that ran over his OWN dog was a seperate person, not with the people...
It was a dog,.. play it how you want, i feel for the guy, but it was a dog, not a child.. Sheesh...
dont make things worse than what they are...

And if it was me down there goofin around, and some guy was invading my privacy and taking my picture without permission,..
Hed be fishing for more than just fish...

Sure im a redneck, i like screwin around in the mud,.. I also love fishing,.. i too fish the vedder canal...
Alot of the people that sit there and fish the canal dont seem to enjoy cleaning up there mess....
I always clean up my mess if any...  I even pick up whatever garbage is around the area im fishing/playing in..
most of the people in the pictures are non drinkers non smokers, people that attend college full time, one of them is even in law school,
before you pass judgment on the people out to enjoy themselves.. maybe you should look close to home...
no body is at risk.. we make sure of that.... we keep to ourselves,.. we even keep distance between us and the people doing what they find enjoyable.. maybe a fisherman,.. someone walking there dog,  I live in chilliwack and im proud of this city/town.

im not hear to call you guys pethetic, or a$$holes.. or jackass's or morons, or goons
so dont call us names.

And if you look its not the river bed there in, its part of a road that runs in conjunction with the dyke..
we always clean off the windows, and the lights after getting muddy, alot of us live minutes away from the dyke...
your posts make it sound so much worse than it actually is..
they were more than 25 feet from the Canal... they were not around any people/passer by's or fisherman.
or your vehicles..
so go ahead, make your complaints... the Citys not gonna waste tax payers money going after a couple guys at the canal hurting noone or anything...
there more important issues in chilliwack/abbotsford that need the attention of the rcmp, and the officials....
i aplaude you worrying about the Riparian zone and all. But your blowing a small group of peoples idea of having some fun into a major incident.

i must apoligize if i went over board in my post,.. but this is just silly....

[Pantharen]

Hi, im a friend of some of the people in the pictures,..
they are very responsible offroaders,
there is nothing wrong with driving down a muddy road..
the only thing hurt is themselves...

Responsible 4xer's dont rip up and ecological area. I am freidns with many people who are members of a 4x4 club. Some of which have seen you and your freinds terring the crap outta that area, and have agreed in the reasoning, that your a bunch of dumbass rednecks, who ruin the image of real 4x4ers.

And the person that ran over his OWN dog was a seperate person, not with the people...
It was a dog,.. play it how you want, i feel for the guy, but it was a dog, not a child.. Sheesh...
dont make things worse than what they are...

So your implying that a DOG isn't worth caring about? IMPO Typical responce from a dumbass redneck....

And if it was me down there goofin around, and some guy was invading my privacy and taking my picture without permission,..
Hed be fishing for more than just fish...

Sure im a redneck, i like screwin around in the mud,.. I also love fishing,.. i too fish the vedder canal...
Alot of the people that sit there and fish the canal dont seem to enjoy cleaning up there mess....
I always clean up my mess if any...  I even pick up whatever garbage is around the area im fishing/playing in..
most of the people in the pictures are non drinkers non smokers, people that attend college full time, one of them is even in law school,
before you pass judgment on the people out to enjoy themselves.. maybe you should look close to home...
no body is at risk.. we make sure of that.... we keep to ourselves,.. we even keep distance between us and the people doing what they find enjoyable.. maybe a fisherman,.. someone walking there dog,  I live in chilliwack and im proud of this city/town.

Why is it when the River clean up rolls around, it's mostly fishermen that are doing from areas outside chilliwack, and rarely have *I* seen the local rednecks helpping out?

im not hear to call you guys pethetic, or a$$holes.. or jackass's or morons, or goons
so dont call us names.

And if you look its not the river bed there in, its part of a road that runs in conjunction with the dyke..
we always clean off the windows, and the lights after getting muddy, alot of us live minutes away from the dyke...
your posts make it sound so much worse than it actually is..
they were more than 25 feet from the Canal... they were not around any people/passer by's or fisherman.
or your vehicles..
so go ahead, make your complaints... the Citys not gonna waste tax payers money going after a couple guys at the canal hurting noone or anything...
there more important issues in chilliwack/abbotsford that need the attention of the rcmp, and the officials....
i aplaude you worrying about the Riparian zone and all. But your blowing a small group of peoples idea of having some fun into a major incident.

i must apoligize if i went over board in my post,.. but this is just silly....

Do you think that because the Rip zone is 50 or 100 feet from the river is going to stop all that crap, oil & gas from seeping into the river. Man your pathetic. IMPO typical dumbass redneck in thought. All in the name of fun.... Maybe the next time I'm out that way, I'll take my camera, and get license plate numbers, and report you and your friend to the cops. And god I hope one of you and your friends try to change my perspective..

To mods and anyone else. I apoologise if I am out of line. I learned years ago when I was a CHILD that destroying an eccological area is wrong, and when I see/hear idiots with the perspective of this clown, it boils my blood. If I am out of line, I'll delete my post.

[cblock]

ok ok ok, you guys are blowing this WAY out of porportion.

i am a fellow 4x4er as well, and trust me, we make sure and take care of any area we play in.
now for the dog incident, yes its horrible what happend, and being a animal lover myself, i would feel horrible if i were to have hit someones best friend.
but the owner of the animal needs to take the responsibility by making sure they know where the animal is, its more fusterating to constantly have to keep and eye on SOMEONES ELSES ANIMAL.

and as for the riparian zone, theres alot more damage being done by factories along the river then us few trucks playing in the mud at the canal.
that road is directly beside the dyke itself, 50' at least from the rivers edge.
plus the rutts were made from a bulldozer a couple of months ago cutting grass.

[John Bigbooty]

I for one would like to see the entire original copy of the post on this subject on that 4X4 site that has now been closed to outsiders.  It's always important to know what kind of person you are dealing with don't you think?  Anybody save a copy?

[cblock]

that goes for you fisherman too.

hahhahahahah

 

[corc]

by making threatening comments you make it a uncomfortable situation for anyone wanting to go down there and fish...
theres alot of people reading this stuff, and is it gonna be you they think is down there being all macho.
dont be so stupid as to threaten people you dont know cause you put other people that use the area for fishing at risk.

your blowing it all out of proportion and context... now thats adumbass redneck!
I did not imply dogs arent worth caring about,.. I have a bull mastif which is a very big part of my family.
ill do anything for him and he'll do anything for me.

It was a dog ran over by its owner, senceless accident. allot of people let there dogs out to run along beside there vehicle.

AS for the clean ups... do you post on the local boards that there IS going to be a clean up???
Maybe in the Future you can maybe Post about it, and then you WILL see some local rednecks out there helpin out!...
every once in a while i go down to the canal, and Peg Sandbar, AS well as the gill rd area and clean up the trash.
I also clean the trails up vedder mountain, so dont think for a second "I" do nothing.

taking someones picture without there permission is illegal. plain and simple.

OH, by the way I AM A REDNECK!
Doesnt bother me you calling me a redneck..

[Big Steel]

i'm a little confused here, make up your mind.
isn't the area between the dykes considered the river bed???

Awww Yeah, that is the riparian zone that all this was about in the first place!!  So me thinks that the Rednecks are a bit ignorant of that fact!!

[John Bigbooty]

I think calling these guys rednecks is degrading to decent rednecks everywhere.  There are plenty of responsible, 4X4 driving rednecks out there, these guys aren't any of them. 

[cblock]

this is starting to sound like a turf war more then anything.

anytime im down there having fun, i fully respect anyone either on the dyke, or fishing.
i always slow down when i pass anyone.

[corc]

CHAPTER:ENGINEERING SERVICESSECTION:DYKING, DRAINAGE AND IRRIGATIONSUBJECT:SUMAS PRAIRIE MAIN CHANNELS – LAND USEAPPROVED BY:COUNCILEFFECTIVE DATE:1995 01 01REVISION DATE:PURPOSE:To regulate the use of public and privately owned land adjacent to:(A)Vedder Canal;(B)Sumas Drainage Channel;(C)Sumas River; and(D)Marshall, Saar, and Arnold Creeks.AUTHORITY:CouncilPOLICY:A.Vedder Canal Lands1.The City owns the land on the west side of the Vedder Canal within the boundaries ofAbbotsford. This land contains the Vedder Canal dyke which protects the reclaimed Sumas Lakelands from the flood hazard posed by the “freshet” of the Fraser River and the winter storm andflood flows of the Chilliwack/Vedder drainage basin. The level and integrity of the dyke shall bemaintained to the operational and maintenance requirements of the Provincial Inspector ofDykes, as identified in the Guidelines for Management of Flood Protections Works in BritishColumbia, published by the Ministry of Environment, Land and Parks; and the Guidelines forVegetation Management on Flood Protections Works to Protect Public Safety and theEnvironment, published by the Ministry of Environment, Land and Parks.2.The land shall be used for the following purposes:(a)Land on the water side of the dyke will be maintained for wildlife habitat and publicrecreational use. Four-wheel drive vehicles and motocross motorbikes are prohibitedfrom using the dyke slopes except at road access points.(b)The land adjacent to the inside of the dyke, which is designated to be the stabilization toeberm, shall be maintained for flood protection. Recreational use shall be permitted whereit does not interfere with that function

Please note:Four-wheel drive vehicles and motocross motorbikes are prohibited from using the dyke slopes except at road access points.(

http://www.abbotsford.ca/policies/900-1-02.pdf
"sorry above link not accessible for regular users"

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0AEKyTcOMdAJ:www.abbotsford.ca/policies/900-1-02.pdf+vedder+canal+buffer&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=2

[lakahahahman]

you know i spend a lot of time fishing down at the canal as well


and everytime i go down there i see fishermen with there trucks pulled up to the Dyke on the lower road that is being complained about here

OK so tell me a truck sitting on the road leaking oil and who knows what else from the truck onto the ground that will get washed into the water

how is this so different than driving across the road and having an oil leak

i myself have wheeled down at the canal on many occasions


so i wheel there and i fish there

when i wheel i pick up garbage around when i can

when i fish i know for a fact that when i leave i have have a bag full of old broken fishing line and wool and rusty hooks and all kinds of tackle

now tell me that all of this is not detrimental to the environment

i guess it is only a bad thing if tires are spun in the mud and not if it is just drove through slowly to get to a dry spot to park my truck to fish but wait maybe i should as well as everybody else leave my truck on the main rd for all the crackheads to break into and steal all my gear

if there was no intention for that area to be driveable then i guess the would not have built the road underneath the bridge instead the should have built it over it

[Big Steel]

Well it seems as though most people that go out to the canal cleans up after themselves!!    Since you guys are there a lot, then the section of the river should be pretty clean then, shouldn't it?  Well then explain to me and my friends, who cleaned that section of the river in the clean up, why we had to take out a couple of truck loads of garbage from the section of the KWB down about 300 yards?  This was one small section, on one side of the river.  The last clean-up was only four months prior to that, in sept.  We took away a torn up air mattress, a futon mattress, a grill for a stove, a car battery, some house siding to name just a few things.  Maybe some should try a little harder to keep their "play" area clean!!

[lakahahahman]

well out of 4 trucks there wheeling in comparison to 150 fisherman kinda hard to clean up after that many day after day


yeah i know my little bronco2 my buddies in there Sammy's and 4runners and jeep yj's


we can haul tons out

considering we never left it there yet we haul it out a little at a time


guess we should just stop cleaning up all the line and $hit and let it entangle all the birds and other wildlife never clean up anymore garbage and just let it go to crap

not like the 4x4 crowd is the one that hauls all the crap down there

bet the people who are dropping off bags of garbage and drug growing stuff and couches and so on and so on never go to the are other than to do that

 SO YOU GUYS CLEAN UP WE CLEAN UP WHAT THE HELL IS THE FIGHT OVER

get the guys who are leaving all the garbage

leave the guys in the trucks alone
the guys in the trucks leave the fishermen alone

kick the litterbugs in the junk and let it be done


does everyone have to be so childish and come back with some kind of better retort to the last persons post

come on why not everyone including me get a friggin life worry about your own $hit i will worry about mine and live life to its fullest

[robszuki]

Last time I checked there weren't many articles about 4 wheelers on the trail fighting each other.
Unlike many of the Vedder River fishermen who have regularily assaulted each other over territory.

Do you think you exclusively own public land?

I agree with you guys on the dog issue, it isn't nice to see any animal neglected.
If the owner had been driving a Hyundai, would you label all Hyundai driviers dog killers?

I have gone down there and played a bit in the mud.
I have also picked up garbage (alot of line and lost fishing gear included with the burger wrappers and dead batteries)
I have also lent a hand freeing stuck fishermen and four wheelers, and been helped when stuck.
Most of the fishermen are friendly and everyone seems to respect one another.

Until this...

If we are asking each other for accountability, then maybe we should ask the RCMP to bring along a breathalizer.
They can take a sample from people leaving, while they check for mud covered lights.
I guess that should clear half of the fishermen out for at least a year while they wait to get thier licenses back.

Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Instead of playing Private Investigator, why not go talk to the people there.
If this is such an issue, why start the communication process with insults, name calling and threats?
Everyone seems confident when sitting behind the safety of thier computer screen.
So...register on a few of the local 4X4 boards, and post your concerns.
As previously suggested maybe a combined clean-up effort by all recreational users at the Vedder could allow people to work together to enjoy the area.

Why is it that the mud eating rednecks are the only ones suggesting common ground and mutual respect, while the refined fishermen stand around chanting "burn the witch!"

That might sound a bit over the top, but it would be a sad day for all of us if they close it off.
Even worse if instead of taking my wife and kids down there, I start bringing mace and a bat instead.

[2:40]

I think the people here are equally concerned about damage to riparian zones regardless of who does it.

A guy driving out to the bar through the water to go fishing gets, or should get, the same attention as the 4x4 guy out for a ride driving through the water.

The drunk fisherman and the drunk 4x4 driver are the same problem as well.

It's unfortunate the many new members to FWR that have taken exception to these concerns about ecological damage have chosen to exaggerate and divert the topic. I did not see anyone say it is ok for fishermen to dump garbage, drink and drive and damage the habitat. In fact, these new members may be interested to note the huge amount of effort some of the members of this site put towards keeping that river clean and to educate people on appropriate use.

Sure factories are an issue along the rivers for pollution, but that does not give anyone the right to do what they want and contribute to the problem so it never improves. 

A 4x4 vehicle after being driven hard, bottoming out and etc is damaged. Then it goes and gets stuck in a mud puddle a few feet from the river while the owner negotiates getting it towed out. Ive seen a vehicle stuck for several hours and once even overnight. What kind of oil and fuel is dripping into the water that will go straight into the river during this period?

The nature of this activity involves creating new mudholes and roads as the beaten path is just no fun. The erosion and damage is incredible when a whole riparian zone is torn to pieces. Not only is fuel and oil a problem, the siltation caused by lack of vegetation is also very damaging to the environment.

I think one person suggested communication with groups involved. A good idea and I applaud that.  Some thoughts though. Several enthusiastic 4x4 off roaders from reputable groups have condoned this activity and even suggested that many that indulge in this activity are not to be grouped with ethical and responsible 4x4 off road drivers. I will assume, with my experience with people, that perhaps this battle rages on between the 'reputable' groups and the group of concern and is only new to those new to the topic. The people that have joined this site in protest of this topic have come across, be it intentional or not, as very unreasonable persons whom I would be unwilling to work with. I, instead, will go to more extreme measures by approaching the RCMP and other officials. This will be done instead of wasting my time being insulted by people whom I have assumed, by observing the actions of many while indulged in their activity, to be an ignorant people. Unfortunately, for the most part, my assumption has proven to be correct at this time.

I hope this can change.



#1. I will work to protect this habitat with the rest of people equally concerned.
#2. If it can be done in cooperation with all users of that area, that will be awesome and I truly hope it can be that way.