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Author Topic: Fight The HST!  (Read 148422 times)

alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2010, 01:27:37 PM »

I agree with you on many of the points in your last post...  although I'm not convinced on legalizing marijuana , even if it raises some tax money.

I was glad to see you avoided the old NDP "raise taxes on the profitable corporations" argument.

But back to HST.  I realize it will increase taxes for most of us. However it will effect the higher income earner much more than the lower income earner. In the process it puts in place a tax system that is simpler, fairer and allows our businesses to be more competitive not only against the other provinces but internationally as well.
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2010, 03:06:29 PM »

I agree with you on many of the points in your last post...  although I'm not convinced on legalizing marijuana , even if it raises some tax money.

I was glad to see you avoided the old NDP "raise taxes on the profitable corporations" argument.

But back to HST.  I realize it will increase taxes for most of us. However it will effect the higher income earner much more than the lower income earner. In the process it puts in place a tax system that is simpler, fairer and allows our businesses to be more competitive not only against the other provinces but internationally as well.
Um, unless you're earning 8 bucks an hour or on disability. There's nothing to protect or help the poorest of the poor except a grab at the few pennies they have to survive on.

I knew the marijuana thing seems a bit out there, but the reasoning is pretty sensible.Not only would it create revenue, but it would free up policing. We're not winning any war on it, never will. Prohibition was an abject failure as well.

(We better stop soon or we'll suffer "The Wrath of Wrodney". :-X ;D)
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yamadirt 426

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2010, 06:27:47 PM »

Where to  cut?
My personal favourite is the Public Affairs Bureau. There's no need for infomercials and propaganda machines in government. Disassemble the regional health boards and all the fat cat salaries and benefits from this massive failure.In fact, disassemble a lot of the boards and gravy that gets given to Liberal, um, board members.Bureaucracy has become a growth business but you don't see cuts there, just childrens dental programs.  Fire David Hahn. Ferry fares are an insult to riders and to reap a million a year for that is a disgraceful insult to all British Columbians. That was a fix - comparable remuneration , like Washington State ferries is in 250,000 to 300,000 area.  Direct that money back into health care. Downsize the cabinet.I've heard there's a proposed Ministry Of Ingrown Toenails( For John Van Dongen or John Les). The cabinet is bloated. Up sin taxes- I don't drink but I'll live with an extra $.50 to a buck on a pack on my pack of Players. Raise PST a penny. We lose our sovereign rights to taxation by handing them over to Ottawa. This one won't win me fans, but it would save money and generate revenue. Legalize marijuana. Distribute it, sell it through outlets like liquor stores and tax the crap out of it. The war on that hasn't been very successful, most Canadians are tolerant to it. Those are just a few off the top of my head. Tough choices, but needed ones.

Can I start sharpening the tines on that pitchfork for you yet? ;)


X2 on this post. AF you sure are out to lunch man.
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Terry Bodman

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2010, 08:47:23 AM »

The bottom line is that the HST is simply a very bad tax. The long range problem is that it is a Federal Tax and BC will lose its ability to adjust tax rates without going to Ottawa first. Very, very bad idea.

If your confused about all the debate you hear simpy ask yourself this question: Why would the Federal Government offer BC $1.6B to do this?

That simple fact should convince you tha the HST is very bad tax.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2010, 09:32:36 AM »




Another opinion.

Liberals distort tax history to justify their HST flip-flop
  By Vaughn Palmer, Vancouver SunApril 3, 2010  When Finance Minister Colin Hansen tabled the enabling legislation for the harmonized sales tax this week, he offered a justification that was completely at odds with his government's previous taxation policy.

"This is a bill that modernizes and enhances the competitiveness of the provincial tax system by eliminating the old, antiquated, inefficient and job-killing provincial sales tax," Hansen said in the house.

Old, antiquated, inefficient and job killing? The PST?

That's no way for a B.C. finance minister to talk about a tax that occupied a central position in provincial fiscal policy from the time it was first enacted to support social services in 1948.

Provincial governments of every political stripe -- Coalition, Social Credit, New Democratic Party and B.C. Liberal -- often tinkered with the tax, raising rates, adding exemptions.

But they jealously guarded the made-in-B. C. nature of the tax as a mainstay of their budget-making, a source of revenue on one hand, a way of dispensing incentives on the other. Both aspects were tailored to a unique provincial economy and political culture.

The federal government and provincial business leaders periodically called for Victoria to join with Ottawa in a single sales tax. Most economists could sketch the longterm advantages of the one tax over the two on the back of an envelope.

The pitches failed every time. Not because B.C. politicians failed to understand the longterm economic benefits, but because they feared the short-term political consequences of shifting from the relatively narrow PST base to the broader federal goods and services tax regime.

All those services, now subject only to the GST, where the tax bite would increase by more than double overnight. All those provincially authored exemptions that would disappear as well. No provincial government was prepared to risk the inevitable political fallout.

Carole Taylor, Hansen's predecessor as finance minister, presided over an extensive study of harmonization during the Liberals' second term.

She concluded that while many businesses could benefit, the tax shift would be punishing for provincial consumers and, not incidentally, for the politicians who depend on their support to get elected.

Asked point-blank whether the B.C. Liberal government would harmonize the provincial sales tax with its federal counterpart, Taylor's reply was succinct and final: "Not on my watch."

Instead the B.C. Liberals embarked on an extensive and time-consuming review of the provincial sales tax, with an aim to reforming it to better suit a changing provincial economy.

Presiding over the review was then-revenue minister Rick Thorpe who noted the added advantages of a homegrown solution. "We do not want to give our sovereign tax rights away to the federal government."

As I've noted before, there's a certain irony in the way harmonization was rejected by Taylor, one of the more "liberal" Liberals, and by Thorpe, one of the more conservative ones, both of whom retired at the subsequent provincial election.

I mention it again only to note the grotesque distortion in Hansen's current justification for harmonization, implying, as it did, that his predecessors had unwittingly maintained a tax regime that was inefficient and killing jobs in the provincial economy.

Another distortion was evident in his chosen title for the enabling bill, the Consumption Tax Rebate and Transition Act, which made no mention of the harmonized sales tax that made the legislation necessary.

"I'm not quite sure why the government has chosen this rather modest title that only obliquely suggests it has anything to do with the HST," said NDP finance critic Bruce Ralston in his opening comments on the bill in the legislature Thursday.

"It perhaps is an excess of modesty on the part of the minister or perhaps it's a realization that the words 'harmonized sales tax,' if it were to really identify the bill for what it was, might provoke even more public anger."

Ralston went on to suggest alternative titles: "The holding up B.C.'s end of the deal with the federal government to get $1.6 billion in swag and implement the HST act. The single best thing we can do for the B.C. economy but didn't want to tell you about before the last election act. This tax is going to fund health care, but we didn't think of that explanation for eight months." And so on.

Better still was his tongue-in-cheek suggestion that the title might violate the truth-in-advertising provisions of the Consumer Protection Act.

"I say that this particular title of this particular bill falls squarely within the definition of a deceptive act or practice. It makes no reference to the HST. Everyone knows it's about the HST.

"[But] they don't even have the jam to put it in the title of the bill."

So it went in the first instalment of a debate that is expected to consume most of the available time in the legislature this month.

There's the barrel. There's the fish. Fire away, Opposition members. The government has surely created a target-rich environment.

vpalmer@vancouversun.com

IronNoggin

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #80 on: April 04, 2010, 11:46:01 AM »

Telling it like it is Chris!  ;)

April 6 is coming up FAST Folks!
The attendance at the rallies held thus far have been stupendous! In almost every location, over capacity crowds are rallying to the cause! In fact, more Folks are attending these than any of the rallies held by either of the major parties in the past several elections! The Groundswell is Growing!   ;D

Due to the issue relating to my eye problems, and following the intensive surgery performed on that last week, I have had to bow out of being directly involved. That hurts as much as dealing with the eye problems itself. I VERY much wanted to play a role here, however small. But they have some Fine local representation, and I feel confident the matter is in good hands.

And so it goes. We VERY much stand a good chance of turning this one around. Please help us end the message that we are NOT "Sheeple" and this latest BS being forced upon us Will Not Be Tolerated!

Cheers,
Nog
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2010, 01:34:31 PM »

X2 on this post.

   ??? ?????? ???

AF you sure are out to lunch man.

Reading between the lines, I'm going to take a long shot here and suggest that yamadirt is neutral on the HST.   ;D
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #82 on: April 04, 2010, 01:47:36 PM »

The bottom line is that the HST is simply a very bad tax. The long range problem is that it is a Federal Tax and BC will lose its ability to adjust tax rates without going to Ottawa first. Very, very bad idea.

If your confused about all the debate you hear simpy ask yourself this question: Why would the Federal Government offer BC $1.6B to do this?

That simple fact should convince you tha the HST is very bad tax.

I would have thought that having one government consult with another government before imposing a tax increase would be the ultimate in tax decision making!. I've seen more downward movement in the GST than I've ever seen in the BC PST!

The idea that HST is bad because BC is being paid to implement it is a connection that I never would have seen.....   ???  I actually like getting paid for stuff I do!  ;D
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2010, 01:56:18 PM »



Another opinion.

Liberals distort tax history to justify their HST flip-flop

etc etc etc.
 

Why don't the NDP come right out and say "If we vote NDP in the next election that they promise to repeal the HST!"

With 80% of BC's population against the HST (Vanderzalm's words, not mine) it seems like a sure fire way for the NDP to win a landslide .    ::) ::)


Oh that's right....         the Federal Liberals tried that one already with the GST!   ;D
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Fish Assassin

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2010, 04:56:00 PM »

Why don't the NDP come right out and say "If we vote NDP in the next election that they promise to repeal the HST!"

With 80% of BC's population against the HST (Vanderzalm's words, not mine) it seems like a sure fire way for the NDP to win a landslide .    ::) ::)


Oh that's right....         the Federal Liberals tried that one already with the GST!   ;D


Exactly right ! The federal Liberals promised to rid of the universally despised GST brought in by the Tories. Last time I looked we still got the GST. Despite what they are saying in public does anyone really think the NDP is going to HST ?
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chris gadsden

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2010, 06:09:17 PM »


Exactly right ! The federal Liberals promised to rid of the universally despised GST brought in by the Tories. Last time I looked we still got the GST. Despite what they are saying in public does anyone really think the NDP is going to HST ?
They should be able to get rid of it  as the way the present government is talking we will be rolling right along ;D ;D ;D with a great economy, high paying jobs, oodles of surplus money in the budget etc. because of the HST.

Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2010, 06:37:33 AM »

Just one question alwaysfishin- Are you content to be bald faced lied to by the politicians? (looking forward to that answer)

I'm not and I think some of what you're seeing is the electorate getting fed up with liars who have the morals of an alley cat.

One thought would be to have EVERY POLITICIAN, regardless of political stripe , sign an oath holding them to their promises or resign the seat. Make the recall initiative more workable, because I'm more than a little sick of seeing iron handed dictators on all political levels hold an ax over any members head who doesn't follow party lines.           
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2010, 07:49:41 AM »

Just one question alwaysfishin- Are you content to be bald faced lied to by the politicians? (looking forward to that answer)

I'm not and I think some of what you're seeing is the electorate getting fed up with liars who have the morals of an alley cat.

One thought would be to have EVERY POLITICIAN, regardless of political stripe , sign an oath holding them to their promises or resign the seat. Make the recall initiative more workable, because I'm more than a little sick of seeing iron handed dictators on all political levels hold an ax over any members head who doesn't follow party lines.           

I don't like being lied to by anyone!

If you have ever owned/operated a business you have at some point changed your business strategy because the economy, technology, customers or staff have changed. Looking back does that mean you lied about what you originally planned to do? Should you have stuck to your original plan even though it was no longer workable and an alternate plan was necessary to make your business more successful?

Few folks have experienced running a business so they can't relate on that level. Running a province or country is no different than running a very large business. Unfortunately to most people a change in strategy by a politician means that he/she lied.

However this thread is about the HST. Whether the liberals "lied" has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the HST.
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2010, 08:31:35 AM »

C'mon now Alwaysfishin- Do you really believe that the implementation of the HST was anything but a desperate tax grab for federal lolly? Do you really believe this wasn't "on the radar" until just after the votes were counted? Did you read the letter or press release about the Liberal stance before and after? Would you allow your offspring to lie like this and just shrug your shoulders? I highly doubt many BC'ers are that gullible, but there may be a few. Very few, but your stance seems to represent that microscopic minority.
I have some magic beans I can sell you and just to sweeten the pot, I'll throw in a bridge.

It's past time government represented the electorate and their wishes. 85% are against the HST. Does that seem representative of our collective will?

BTW- I DO own and operate a business so that doesn't wash. If I, to all intents and purposes sign a contract to perform certain duties and I lay out the plan, but after I cash the cheque I change the rules of the contract, most of my customers would rightly fire me and/or sue me, as well they should. This is the exact same thing, except as a society we let politicians get away with it.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2010, 09:25:06 AM »

C'mon now Alwaysfishin- Do you really believe that the implementation of the HST was anything but a desperate tax grab for federal lolly? Do you really believe this wasn't "on the radar" until just after the votes were counted? Did you read the letter or press release about the Liberal stance before and after? Would you allow your offspring to lie like this and just shrug your shoulders? I highly doubt many BC'ers are that gullible, but there may be a few. Very few, but your stance seems to represent that microscopic minority.
I have some magic beans I can sell you and just to sweeten the pot, I'll throw in a bridge.

It's past time government represented the electorate and their wishes. 85% are against the HST. Does that seem representative of our collective will?

BTW- I DO own and operate a business so that doesn't wash. If I, to all intents and purposes sign a contract to perform certain duties and I lay out the plan, but after I cash the cheque I change the rules of the contract, most of my customers would rightly fire me and/or sue me, as well they should. This is the exact same thing, except as a society we let politicians get away with it.

And that's the great thing about a democracy....  We all can express our opinions. I voted for MR Besler in the last provincial election. (He's the anti-HST organizer in Chilliwack). It wasn't that I was concerned about the liberal government, it was my concern that Mr Les had used his office to profit from some real estate deals.

I love that 85% statistic. Nobody likes taxes, specially if they seem like new taxes. Will that translate to votes for the NDP... not likely.

I haven't seen any signed contract that says the liberals wouldn't raise taxes or introduce new ones....

I do expect that they operate this province on a financially responsible basis and I accept that because the tax base is eroding they need to either cut expenses or raise revenue.

You are choosing to believe the HST is a desperate tax grab, I'm choosing to believe it's an opportunity to put a nation wide sale tax in place that makes more sense than the current system.
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