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Author Topic: Fight The HST!  (Read 148438 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #165 on: April 22, 2010, 10:50:58 PM »

http://www.fighthst.com/wp-content/uploads/HST-List.pdf

This is the list I got from Bill but why does they government not post theirs? Second thought it may be that they will once again change their mind like they did 2 days after the election. :-X :o

alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #166 on: April 22, 2010, 11:02:35 PM »

I would be skeptical of anything I got from Bill......    Look at his record of truthfulness on Fantasy Gardens   ;D ;D

CRA will be administering the HST by the same rules that the GST is administered...

Check out the CRA website http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/gnrl/txbl/txblxmpt-eng.html
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bcguy

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #167 on: April 23, 2010, 07:14:38 AM »

10. You may have heard “HST will hurt small business”
HST will be good for business. It will replace hidden sale tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.

This is not exactly true, most if not all businesses have whats called a PST exemption number, and are not charged PST, nor is there any cost to be embedded at a later date. If I buy 10 widgets to build a product, I only pay the GST, then later get it back.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 07:22:30 AM by bcguy »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #168 on: April 23, 2010, 07:33:31 AM »

10. You may have heard “HST will hurt small business”
HST will be good for business. It will replace hidden sale tax and small businesses will get additional tax cuts. Currently, PST is applied at every step in the creation of a product. Those multiple PST charges are embedded in the price you pay at the store – even though you can't see it. And of course, you pay PST on the final purchase price. Under the HST system, most of those embedded costs are removed and savings can be passed on to the consumer.

This is not exactly true, most if not all businesses have whats called a PST exemption number, and are not charged PST, nor is there any cost to be embedded at a later date. I f I buy 10 widgets to build a product, I only pay the GST, then later get it back.

You are correct that most businesses have a PST exempt number which exempts the products they buy for resale.

What they are referring to above is the PST that is charged on everything that goes into producing/manufacturing the products they sell. Approximately 40% of PST revenue collected in BC is paid by businesses on goods and services which they purchase to run their operations – everything from equipment, machinery, vehicles, and building materials to office supplies, furniture, energy, legal services and more. The HST that they pay in the future can be claimed back. In addition the cost of collecting the PST tax will be eliminated.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #169 on: April 23, 2010, 11:30:12 AM »

The HST's bitter pill might be good medicine
Times Colonist (Victoria)
Friday, April 23, 2010
Page A12
By Maclean Kay

Until you live someplace, you can't get a proper feel for her passions and proclivities. So, naturally I started paying attention to the debate over the harmonized sales tax.

Coming from Alberta, I naturally sympathized with its opponents -- taxes bad! Announced just after an election, when it needed to be discussed in advance, the timing wasn't merely suspicious. It reeked. Still does.
But it didn't take long to see the issue was more complicated.

B.C. politics "enjoy" a reputation as harsh and noisy, making it hard to discern mindless rhetoric from fair comment. Many of the HST's detractors are ordinary people who think it's a bad idea. Fair enough.
But many of the loudest are the types who think Premier Gordon Campbell lies when he orders lunch. That's not a knock on the left -- they have counterparts on the other side, just as shrill and stupid. It's a knock on people who don't know what they're for, only who they hate.

Assuming the Liberals aren't evil fat cats lighting cigars with $100 bills, but actually believe this is good policy, I wanted to hear their side. They must think it's worth it to endure this, because they couldn't have handled it worse.
If that's the case, I should ask the smartest person I could find to explain it. So, I looked in the mirror.

Yes, I'm kidding. I asked a friend who can arrange such things, who he would recommend. Would a Harvard MBA economist do? Uh ... yeah. That would be fine.
Ralph Sultan, the first provincial politician I've met with a Harvard MBA, was good enough to call me and explain the benefits of the HST, slowly, using long words only when absolutely necessary. Sultan started by saying, basically, value-added taxes are the future. Most Western countries are moving this way, with the notable exception of the United States. Simpler and cheaper overall, they're much loved by economists.
Currently, consumers are hit by several layers of provincial sales tax before the product or service appears in front of them, especially in sectors like manufacturing. This accumulates, driving the costs of business up. You're paying those taxes now, you just aren't seeing them.

The HST has the benefit of being visible. That I can appreciate.
I asked Sultan how British Columbians can be expected to support what is, to most, a bigger tax on more items.
"Let's start with jobs," he said. No matter how much this isn't fun to hear, the companies people work for have to do well, or they either fold or leave. Neither of those is good for the province, and the multi-tiered tax system makes B.C. less attractive to do business in.

Yes, the "annoyance factor" will be there. Some things will be more expensive. But the cost of business will go down, encouraging reinvestment in industries not doing well, such as forestry.
As someone who wasn't here in the awful 1990s, but pointing and laughing from Alberta (now doing the same in reverse), I can appreciate that, too.

Policy aside, Sultan has been one of his own government's harshest critics of the timing and delivery. He's right -- the delivery was borderline incompetent, and incomprehensibly slow to muster a response to the storm of opposition. That doesn't inspire confidence, which the Opposition MLAs have exploited. As they should.

Sultan made good points, I had to admit. I enjoyed the chance to pick his brain. Too often, we decry politicians for swaying with the polls and playing it safe.
Nothing is irreversible -- the Liberals are clearly and openly gambling that by the next election, voters will have seen the benefits and calmed down.
The federal Liberals vowed to repeal the hated GST, but found it made too much sense and kept it. Sultan says it will be the same here -- bitter pill, good medicine.

But man, was that timing ever horrible.

macleankay@shaw.ca
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #170 on: April 25, 2010, 10:57:13 AM »

Restaurant meals
 Cable TV
 New Homes
 Non-prescription meds
 Telephone
 Internet
 Propane / Natural gas
 Hockey tickets
 Some groceries – Prepared foods
 Hair cuts
 Admission fees
 Membership fees
 Movies
 Theatre
 Bus fares
 Magazines/ newspapers
 Rents /Strata fees
 Taxi fares
 Airline tickets
 Golf fees
 Music lessons
 Skiing
 Spa services
 Massage therapy
 Resort packages
 Parking
 Coffee shops
 Fast food - Beverages
 Dry cleaning
 Car repair & maintenance
 Vitamins
 Dietary supplements
 School supplies
 Photography
 Home maintenance
 Health equipment
 Consulting services
 Storage lockers
 Moorage
 Campgrounds
 RV parks
 Animal feed
 Fishing charters
 Heating fuel
 Naturopathy
 Reflexology
 Veterinarian
 Physiotherapy
 Museums
 Home renovations
 Painting
 Real estate fees
 Bicycles
 Accounting
 Architects
 Legal fees
 Concert Tickets
 Funeral services
 Chinese medicine
 Marketing services
 Safety equipment
 Helmets
 Life jackets
 First aid kits
 Smoke detectors
 Fire extinguishers
 Energy equipment
 Insulation
 Solar power
 Attractions / Events
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CameronT120

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #171 on: April 25, 2010, 06:27:54 PM »

With that list, you guys keep forgetting to list the rebates to the HST that are applicable.  Particularly the rebates for new home purchases.  I like how that keeps being included in the list without clarification.  Also, go through that list and realistically identify how many items on it you consume regularly.  If you can afford any of those things on a regular basis, you can most likely afford an additional bit of tax.  Also, take rent off that list, as it is not subject to HST - and remember that landlords are limited in how much they can increase rent each year.
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #172 on: April 25, 2010, 08:07:58 PM »

With that list, you guys keep forgetting to list the rebates to the HST that are applicable.  Particularly the rebates for new home purchases.  I like how that keeps being included in the list without clarification.  Also, go through that list and realistically identify how many items on it you consume regularly.  If you can afford any of those things on a regular basis, you can most likely afford an additional bit of tax.  Also, take rent off that list, as it is not subject to HST - and remember that landlords are limited in how much they can increase rent each year.

What rebates? And all you can come up with to dispute is rent? And good luck finding a home in the lower mainland under the $500,000 threshold.
There's a lot on that list are pretty necessary - like natural gas or you can freeze in winter. I've tried cutting my own hair- looked pretty bad. Do you really think a landlord is going to take a hit like the HST is going to put on maintenance, and not pass it on?  Are you really deluded enough to think retailers are going to pass on any savings they might realize? Don't  need a phone? Never had a therapeutic massage or physiotherapy for a messed up back? Walk, don't take a bus if you can't afford a car. If you get a headache, don't reach for an aspirin (or if you need it for your heart). Don't take vitamins. Look at the sizes before kids aren't considered kids for tax purposes. My 13 year old is 6'1 and takes size 11 shoes, but his clothes are taxed.School supplies. Don't try to get fit - your membership is hit as well as your bicycle, forget about the savings to the health care system.Etc,etc

I make no bones about my disdain for the liar - lawn chocolates in power. They're beneath contempt and way beyond arrogance.


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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #173 on: April 25, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »

Restaurant meals
 Cable TV
 etc. etc

This list taken from Vanderzalm's website is full of duplications, inaccuracies and as CameronT120 noted, fails to list any offsetting HST rebates and credits. Vanderzalm would have more credibility if he referred people to the CRA GST/HST website. ???

It's safe to say if you currently pay GST on anything you purchase / consume, you will  pay HST. The HST as the current HST will be administered by CRA not the provincial government.

There has never been a "GST" list put out by the federal government so it is unlikely that they will put out an "HST" list. If you go to the GST website you can at least learn from the source rather than the Vanderzalm "fan the flames" rhetoric.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/gst-tps/menu-eng.html

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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #174 on: April 25, 2010, 09:27:09 PM »

What rebates? And all you can come up with to dispute is rent? And good luck finding a home in the lower mainland under the $500,000 threshold.
There's a lot on that list are pretty necessary - like natural gas or you can freeze in winter. I've tried cutting my own hair- looked pretty bad. Do you really think a landlord is going to take a hit like the HST is going to put on maintenance, and not pass it on?  Are you really deluded enough to think retailers are going to pass on any savings they might realize? Don't  need a phone? Never had a therapeutic massage or physiotherapy for a messed up back? Walk, don't take a bus if you can't afford a car. If you get a headache, don't reach for an aspirin (or if you need it for your heart). Don't take vitamins. Look at the sizes before kids aren't considered kids for tax purposes. My 13 year old is 6'1 and takes size 11 shoes, but his clothes are taxed.School supplies. Don't try to get fit - your membership is hit as well as your bicycle, forget about the savings to the health care system.Etc,etc

I make no bones about my disdain for the liar - lawn chocolates in power. They're beneath contempt and way beyond arrogance.


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Novabonker, you must be drinking the same strong coffee that Vanderzalm drinks...   ;D  At least your intentions are quite honest. (even though you clearly don't appreciate the advantage of the HST system versus the current PST tax system)

You will be paying more consumption taxes for sure (the province needs your money), however as long as you keep drinking that coffee you won't need to buy any of those "expensive" aspirin for your heart.  :D

Vanderzalm on the other hand,  is clearly misleading the public in order to make a name for himself, so that he can run for premier in the next election as the leader of the BC Conservative party.  ???
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #175 on: April 26, 2010, 05:23:03 AM »

Let's toss the list to the side and bring up DEMOCRACY. We supposedly live in a democracy, but this flies right in the face of that. Look at the polling numbers. When a government tries to ram it's agenda down the electorate's throat, it's time to stand up and be counted. It's our province and not the liberals.  They were sent to Victoria to represent the wishes of B.C., not act like tin pot dictators in the third world. The waste these fools foist on us just by the size of the cabinet and the 30 million dollar PR machine (read PAB) would help pare down some of the ATM attitude that the buffoon Campbell has for the taxpayer that doesn't earn hundreds of thousands a year. If money is so tight why the hell did Gordo put on that dog and pony show to announce the site c dam project? These same idiots that can't see a raise in the minimum wage earner from a measly 8 bucks an hour. ::) It's all about business and nothing for the working poor.Yeah, yeah, yeah rebates, quarterly cheque and all that horse hockey still doesn't feed or house the people that can least afford it.Smoke, mirrors and bafflegab don't fill a hungry stomach any better than the excrement that comes from the liar's mouths.Show me the list of rebates and credits that you're trumpeting about but have yet to deliver.
One small, but important point - If this is such a wonderful tax, why wasn't it trotted out before the last election? Because we both know the liberals would have lost the election. They even went the extra mile saying they wouldn't be bringing in the HST. So, in essence, they got there by fraudulent means. Lies and deceit. Put as much lipstick, mascara and other make up as you wish on the pig, but it's still a pig.

Tell me AF and your sidekick- Do you believe in democracy? That's the only question I'm asking of you. nothing else, no sidetracks or pro or anti GST rhetoric, just simply - Do you believe in democracy?.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 05:35:19 AM by Novabonker »
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #176 on: April 26, 2010, 07:48:53 AM »

Let's toss the list to the side and bring up DEMOCRACY. We supposedly live in a democracy, but this flies right in the face of that. Look at the polling numbers. When a government tries to ram it's agenda down the electorate's throat, it's time to stand up and be counted. It's our province and not the liberals.  They were sent to Victoria to represent the wishes of B.C., not act like tin pot dictators in the third world. The waste these fools foist on us just by the size of the cabinet and the 30 million dollar PR machine (read PAB) would help pare down some of the ATM attitude that the buffoon Campbell has for the taxpayer that doesn't earn hundreds of thousands a year. If money is so tight why the hell did Gordo put on that dog and pony show to announce the site c dam project? These same idiots that can't see a raise in the minimum wage earner from a measly 8 bucks an hour. ::) It's all about business and nothing for the working poor.Yeah, yeah, yeah rebates, quarterly cheque and all that horse hockey still doesn't feed or house the people that can least afford it.Smoke, mirrors and bafflegab don't fill a hungry stomach any better than the excrement that comes from the liar's mouths.Show me the list of rebates and credits that you're trumpeting about but have yet to deliver.
One small, but important point - If this is such a wonderful tax, why wasn't it trotted out before the last election? Because we both know the liberals would have lost the election. They even went the extra mile saying they wouldn't be bringing in the HST. So, in essence, they got there by fraudulent means. Lies and deceit. Put as much lipstick, mascara and other make up as you wish on the pig, but it's still a pig.


Reminds me of the time Joe Clark campaigned on the need to raise the gasoline tax so that he could balance the budgets. The liberals campaigned on the fact they would not raise the gas tax and won. In less than a year the gas tax went up. Then there was Chretien's promise to eliminate the GST....  I'm sure you can add a few more.

Tell me AF and your sidekick- Do you believe in democracy? That's the only question I'm asking of you. nothing else, no sidetracks or pro or anti GST rhetoric, just simply - Do you believe in democracy?.


As I've said before, democracy doesn't mean you get a say in every decision the government makes. Democracy means that every 4 years you get to vote on who runs the province. So YES, I believe in democracy!

If you want to get involved in the decision making, then run for office!
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Novabonker

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #177 on: April 26, 2010, 08:12:31 AM »

Reminds me of the time Joe Clark campaigned on the need to raise the gasoline tax so that he could balance the budgets. The liberals campaigned on the fact they would not raise the gas tax and won. In less than a year the gas tax went up. Then there was Chretien's promise to eliminate the GST....  I'm sure you can add a few more.

As I've said before, democracy doesn't mean you get a say in every decision the government makes. Democracy means that every 4 years you get to vote on who runs the province. So YES, I believe in democracy!

If you want to get involved in the decision making, then run for office!
 

How do you square that circle? The anti HST forces are representing the wishes of a vast majority of British Columbians. I assume you might have run some sort of business, so if you hired somebody and it turns out they lied through their teeth to get the job, do you keep them around for 4 years? Highly doubtful. This is democracy in action, like it or lump it. As to your condesending remark about running for office, I don't have the resources and refuse to prostitute myself like Campbell has for party donations. Look at the list of donors, look at the list of who gets the perks. Funny how that works. Shameful and lacking any form of morality.
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CameronT120

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #178 on: April 26, 2010, 08:48:54 AM »

Okay, so this really isn't about the HST, it's about your dislike for how Campbell does things.  Right?

Two separate issues, that I wish would be kept separate.  "Campbell bad", I can respect that opinion.  It's just a shame that you can't see the HST for the better tax that it is and keep it removed from your feelings towards what you think this government did to you.  None of us like taxes, but I'd rather see this new tax than the regressive and unfair PST that it will replace.

But what do I know, according to you, I'm deluded (how about sticking to topic and leave the school yard name calling out of it?).
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Fight The HST!
« Reply #179 on: April 26, 2010, 11:31:46 AM »

As to your condesending remark about running for office, I don't have the resources and refuse to prostitute myself like Campbell has for party donations. Look at the list of donors, look at the list of who gets the perks. Funny how that works. Shameful and lacking any form of morality.

My remark wasn't intended to be condescending whatsoever.

However your generalizing comments on the people that run for office if taken as gospel truth would deter anyone from running for office! 
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