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Author Topic: William Shatner and fish farming  (Read 4449 times)

roeman

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2024, 05:59:58 PM »

OMG....
Get a room and a ruler, measure your dicks and get it over with
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2024, 06:34:46 PM »

OMG....
Get a room and a ruler, measure your dicks and get it over with

 ;D

Have you found yours, recently?
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Fisherbob

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clarki

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2024, 01:25:25 PM »

I didn't know the moderators gave Bob permission to post in this forum.  colour me shocked.

Well, I guess that answers that!
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GordJ

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2024, 01:55:06 PM »

I would comment but roeman says that we are not supposed to have discussions on the discussion board.
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2024, 04:42:48 PM »

http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers#:~:text=Beginning%20in%202000%2C%20The%20Packard,to%20avoid%20farmed%20salmon%20products.

from your link:

Quote
Beginning in 2000, The Packard Foundation has granted over $75 million specifically for projects that influence seafood retailers and consumers to avoid farmed salmon products.

So? That might be a big deal if we lived in a oppressive dictatorship like Russia but in democracies with the right of freedom expression and speech, it is meaningless! It's an insult to those values to suggest otherwise and speaks ill well of those who see it as a major issue.

It's also beyond insignificant. Many of the major players in Salmon farming and aquaculture have billions in revenue year after year. For 2023Mowi - over 10 billion Canadian and over 16 billion in assets. Grieg 2 billion in revenue. Cemaq has an exemption from the Norwegian government and doesn't even have to report it's financials.

The publication you quoted is from 2010! It's over 14 years out of date. Get with both the times and the skill of good research. You are making a point like a loser. Submitting something like that in high school would earn an F.

Even at that, at best it's 7.5 million a year - if it is even correct. It's a tiny tiny of  a fraction of a percent of both a corporation like Mowi's assets or of the Packard Foundations for that matter.

A far as " According to Vivian Krause, who has done extensive research into this subject, large foundations have gifted at least $126 million to ENGOs to create negative publicity for farmed salmon." Krauss is not a serious researcher.  With her strong financial and BC ties to the oil industry and the BC Salmon farming industry she biased should not  be taken seriously. She has never said that Canadian environmental groups are being used by US foundations and in fact she has zero evidence they are and also implicitly acknowledges these grants are legal  as she has previously sought "legal advice" on the matter. If that advice indicated it was illegal she would have both written and said so.

https://thenarwhal.ca/topics/vivian-krause/

https://energi.media/deep-dives/debunked-vivian-krauses-tar-sands-campaign-conspiracy-narrative/

https://globalnews.ca/news/7883936/vivian-krause-anti-alberta-oil-inquiry-no-evidence/
« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 04:45:33 PM by RalphH »
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Fisherbob

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2024, 05:17:59 PM »

What ever your point is Ralph, you can prove the anti-salmon farm “dog” science is not just propaganda by telling me where and when salmon farming has devastated wild salmon? 
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2024, 06:09:24 PM »

ha ha - the usual meaningless deflection. My point is you cant argue the issue  and refer back to useless info from 14 to 15 years ago. Beside you know the examples of where wild salmon were devastated and have helped circulate the lies about that have been around for 20 years.
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"It is obviously, incontestably true that a senile president with a competent and ethical staff would be preferable to an authoritarian one who wants to fill his administration with guys who sound like school shooter manifestos " ...Adam Serwer writing in The Atlantic July 3, 2024

Fisherbob

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2024, 07:45:14 PM »

Beside you know the examples of where wild salmon were devastated

Feel free to prove it. All you have done so far is repeat things you have heard from the well funded anti-salmon farm dog science propaganda peddled out to the public. I am sure that if salmon farming has had a devastating affect on wild salmon, the feds would not have given salmon farmers a “5 year extension” on licences. Who knows, you may teach me something.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2024, 08:12:18 PM by Fisherbob »
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2024, 09:16:03 AM »

Feel free to prove it. All you have done so far is repeat things you have heard from the well funded anti-salmon farm dog science propaganda peddled out to the public. I am sure that if salmon farming has had a devastating affect on wild salmon, the feds would not have given salmon farmers a “5 year extension” on licences. Who knows, you may teach me something.


the document that DFO and the industry tries to make disappear.

https://psf.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Download-PDF387-1.pdf

-----------------------------

Is scientific inquiry still incompatible with government information control?

A case study using the example of salmon aquaculture

https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/full/10.1139/cjfas-2022-0286

"[we]review how government science advice continues to be influenced by non-science interests, particularly those with a financial stake in the outcome of the advice. We use the example of salmon aquaculture in British Columbia, Canada, to demonstrate how science advice from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) can fail to be impartial, evidence-based, transparent, and independently reviewed—four widely implemented standards of robust science advice. Consequently, DFO's policies are not always supported by the best available science."


-------------------------------------

of course there is the Letter from 16 independent Scientists based at Canadian Universities who claim DFO has manipulated data and analysis to favor the Salmon farming industry. DFO has also acknowledged the industry effectively has a veto power of some sort to block release of scientific information gathered by DFO that may not favor their operations.

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/a-scientific-sin-16-canadian-salmon-scientists-claim-dfo-sea-lice-report-was-manipulated-6493604






« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 09:30:54 AM by RalphH »
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Fisherbob

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2024, 01:22:19 PM »

 Thank you Ralph. that was a bit of a read. Your first link in my eyes is based on opinion and even claims to be.
     " Note that this document, and the information contained in it, are provided on an “as is” basis. They represent the
opinion of the author(s)".
 The second link to me is simply an "advice" study.
  The third is also an advice article simply arguing on how science should be done. Peer Review?
 https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/12/16/a-scientist-says-that-peer-review-is-obsolete/
 It seems to me that there is a lot of "I will scratch your back if you scratch mine" In peer review these days.
Perhaps some one far more educated in the science field can correct me if I am wrong.

No mention of when or where salmon farming has been detrimental to wild salmon in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2024, 01:44:29 PM by Fisherbob »
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2024, 06:09:52 PM »

Bob, if you don't think opinion is an significant factor in science and the scientific method then you seriously don't understand how either works. I long felt the "contribution" you make to this particular discussion demonstrates such a lack of understanding. Science isn't found in the marketing tabloids of the aquaculture industry to which you commonly  supply links. Neither does science rest in the number of studies or scientists that support a certain theory or viewpoint. Another falsehood we hear a lot these days is that good policy should be based on 'science'. Mostly it's used by people like you who advocate for specific policies that will benefit them. But that is nothing new. Science often has little interest in policy.  However policy such as policy about salmon farming has to consider a number things including cultural factors , cost, risk and the precautionary principle. As far as the link about "a scientist" (you can find a scientist who thinks just about anything fairly easily who thinks peer review is obsolete. Peer review (which I didn't mention)  isn't done to keep scientists in check, reduce productivity or to prevent major paradigm change. If these are not what one scientist thinks they should be it may have something to do with other factors such as the lack of funding without implicit strings or the rising cost of research. Peer research basically to ensure a piece of research has what is accepted principles of experimental design and interpretation... most of which is based on statistics  It's also not done by other scientists who agree with the particular with the findings and conclusions of the paper in question. It is also worth noting that when use of the net was used to publish paper many of questionable value went straight to new periodicals that did not conduct peer review creating great alarm in community.

BTW the review of the Broughton pink salmon collapse is the temporally closest and complete  done at the time. It can't be done any better since DFO  responded to late and in sufficiently to get it right. It makes a solid case the collapse was caused by a sea lice bloom associated with salmon farming operations and has had a long lasting influence on the farms operate. Typically there was denial by the industry and great foot dragging on their part to employ measures to reduce such blooms in the future.

I hope these comments make some sense to those reading them.
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Fisherbob

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2024, 10:48:16 AM »

The question still is, where and when has salmon farming been detrimental to Pacific salmon?
 No presumptions needed for this question at all.

https://www.cahs-bc.ca/2010/12/13/sea-lice-not-cause-of-wild-salmon-collapse-researchers-say/
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 11:07:32 AM by Fisherbob »
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RalphH

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2024, 11:21:03 AM »

Again that link is 14 years old. Much has changed as far research that shows harm and potential harms. Again I provided you the Federal paper (not DFO's) that  stated on the balance of probabilities salmon farms in the Broughton were responsible for the pink salmon collapse. Adhering to the precautionary principle, it recommended that farms be pulled out of that area during the smolt migration areas for 2 subsequent years and that's what happened. That's more than good enough for me though I am sure it's not good enough for you and some others. 

This is my last post to you. You can return to your regular programming of providing marketing and PR links from Seawest and other such organizations.

Enjoy the rest of your life. May it be long and filled with dreams of open net salmon farms. Cheers
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 11:37:32 AM by RalphH »
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Fisherbob

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Re: William Shatner and fish farming
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2024, 12:02:48 PM »

There is nothing wrong with presuming Ralph, but disregarding research because it is old gets us no where. Accumulating information over the years is what stops new age presumptions from becoming fact.
https://www.crestonvalleyadvance.ca/news/sea-lice-numbers-not-necessarily-influenced-by-salmon-farms-industry-studies-5293873
« Last Edit: June 29, 2024, 02:31:39 PM by Fisherbob »
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